Lufthansa plane flown by autopilot after pilot faints in cockpit
60 comments
·May 17, 2025lachtan
RegnisGnaw
The FAA (US) requires this. EASA (Europe) adopted this rule in 2015 after the Eurowings incident but it was rolled back in 2016.
andy99
I know I've regularly seen a flight attendant go into the cockpit while one of the pilots steps out for the bathroom or whatever. Did not realize this wasn't the norm in Europe.
bbatsell
My understanding of the purported reasoning behind the reversal was:
- They required airlines to implement cameras to monitor the hall leading up to the cockpit so that the pilot in the cockpit can verify who is requesting entry (without this, they still must follow the rule — Ryanair chose not to retrofit, so they continue to use attendants who can look out the peephole).
- In testing, they decided that the extra time that the cockpit door was unsecured during the switchovers in tight spaces was more dangerous than trying to solve the suicidal pilot issue with better mental health monitoring.
(My own note, we know that suicidal actors have no problems taking weapons to their copilots or whatever attendant is stuck looking out the peephole, e.g. FedEx 705.)
smokeyfish
I see this on Ryanair flights all the time in Europe.
harshreality
The kinds of planes you're thinking about, yes.
From what I understand, it's affected by two things:
1. The regulatory side, driven by the size and complexity of the plane. That in turn affects potential number of passengers and typical hiring arrangement (pay-per-seat vs charter vs personal use). If you google best single-pilot aircraft, you'll see things like the hondajet, pilatus pc-24, and citation cj2/3/4. Nothing larger or more complex than that.
2. Insurance requirements for particular flights. If you're hiring out a plane to carry other people, you need a different kind of liability insurance. That insurance might require you to have two pilots even for a small plane (like a stereotypical primitive prop plane, or a previously mentioned small jet like hondajet or citation cj2/3/4) that might in other situations be legal to fly with a single pilot. Or, for someone like an executive with hefty personal injury insurance, that person's insurance might not cover them if they fly in a plane with a single pilot.
That's not to say that all "for hire" flying requires two pilots. Consider small prop planes for sightseeing, or skydiving, or island hopping the Caribbean. Unless something's changed recently, you won't have two pilots for those kinds of flights.
The reason I brought up personal insurance for passengers: CitationMax (certified ATP pilot who flies his parents around in their private jet) on youtube has mentioned that his father's personal/executive insurance requires him to fly with two pilots. Even when they had a cj3+, they added a contract pilot when his father was onboard. Now they have a citation longitude, which is large/complex enough that it can never be flown with only one pilot, even if no passengers are onboard.
IG_Semmelweiss
>>>>Some 10 minutes later, the captain managed to open the cockpit security door using an emergency code. He had completed training for such an eventuality a month beforehand.
This is the last paragraph of the article, yet so much is left unsaid
jameslk
It’s not the last paragraph. The rest of the article is there behind a “Read Full Article” button you have to click
Vilian
A button that don't shows up if you have privacy enabled in firefox
xtracto
Yikes!. After the Germanwings incident where the copilot crashed the plane; I thought at least 2 people were supposed to be in the cockpit at all times.
Im that case, the pilot tried opening the doornwith the emergency code, but the copilot kept overriding it :(
Why would they remove that rule?
Tika2234
European standards are lower when it comes to piloting. The plane itself is higher standard, the piloting is lower. They are the one with mental health problem even though USA is world famous for going postal. Ryanair? You pay what you get for. Most Europeans fly Airbus which is mostly automatic in design. Boeing in America is different. You can see that reduce the pilot skillset for automation comfort. But wherever you fly each regions have their pros and cons. That is why we need C919 to be successful to reduce Airbus and Boeing dominance.
izacus
Probably because that rule causes more issues than it solves. Adding more mindless security theater isn't always how you improve safety.
octo888
Pilot/union pressure IIRC
everybodyknows
> co-pilot was very pale, sweating profusely and making strange movements
Heart attack symptoms.
anonzzzies
Someone in my village was taken to the hospital recently as indeed these symptoms can mean heart attack, or, in his case, a severe hangover.
Havoc
There were previous instances of both pilots falling asleep for much longer timespans.
Wild that cars can detect you taking your eyes off the road and yet this...
throw123xz
It's not that the technology doesn't exist, but even assuming that it's cheap and works well, pilots in general are against these features. There have been proposals to have security cameras inside the cockpit and they've come out against it. They're even against increasing the recording capacity of black boxes... imagine a system that monitors if they're paying attention or awake.
FirmwareBurner
When you're responsible for the lives of ~200 souls you shouldn't be entitled to so much privacy at your job. The safety of those people comes first. So I don't get why pilots have a say in this in the first place.
rad_gruchalski
They have their say because on that aircraft they are the highest authority. You ain’t flying without them and you cannot train a replacement within a quarter.
rad_gruchalski
Mmm… “hey, it looks like you are distracted, how about you stop and have a coffee break” during an emergency while on a final approach might not be what you want.
woldemariam
tim333
Funny how that talks about them missing a landing at Addis Ababa but shows a flight map over Tasmania.
atonse
In the US at least, the cockpit door is locked from the inside.
What happens in this situation if they can’t open it?
I think in the US at least they block the cockpit door with a food cart while the pilot goes to the bathroom. Maybe they leave it unlocked then?
kotaKat
The door being blocked additionally by a food cart may be an additional security step. Some airlines treat having the flight crew needing a bathroom break very seriously when the cockpit has to be opened in flight (ex sending passengers back to seats if they try to go to the front bathrooms, closing curtains, lead staff up front on standby, etc).
Here's the cockpit locking system on Airbuses, for what it's worth as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROIH3KCEIvs
There is a button that sounds a 'request' chime, and a code that when entered starts a timer and alarm that once stops, releases the door momentarily for an emergency entry. The crew inside can still disable that unlock, if they are conscious (and this is some kind of attempted hijacking with knowledge of the code).
user3939382
They should have a normal code and a distress code.
bastawhiz
The article suggests that this is the case
quietbritishjim
In the US (and other countries) the door is locked but there is a PIN to open it that the cabin crew have access to. Even then, there's a time delay to the door opening, during which people in the cockpit are notified and can reject the request.
That means that no food cart should ever be needed to block the door. But the cockpit should never be totally empty anyway, as surely only one of the two crew should be using the toilet at a time.
(Note: I'm not a pilot, just a reader of Admiral Cloudberg's blog.)
pfannkuchen
Why isn’t there just a shitter in the cockpit behind the cockpit door?
jedberg
Space is a premium. They already don't have room for the ones they've got. Can't afford the space for another one that only two people can use.
pfannkuchen
I think it’s more likely that the designs are basically frozen. Surely USG could regulate this into existence for safety. They didn't seem to mind a much larger impact for spinning up the TSA.
thinkingemote
The captain or co-pilot whoever is outside, has the code to open it
rad_gruchalski
It was flown by an autopilot before the pilot fainted. As it was after they brought him back. My sarcastic response to this line is “I fucking hope it was, imagine the mess if it didn’t”.
The main problem is, there was one guy in the cockpit.
p_ing
They're usually flown by auto-pilot, in one mode or another. That part isn't interesting.
greatgib
From my reading of the article, what is interesting is that the copilot accidentally messed with commands during the time that he fainted or his crisis but the autopilot compensated for that.
timewizard
It always will when active. Once you set the control mode and parameters it will always try to maintain them. Additionally if you have flight director enabled it will alter the mode and parameters at specific points in the flight for you automatically.
A pilot putting enough force or enough deflection on the controls will automatically disable autopilot and sound the general caution. So it's very lucky he stayed within the autopilot activation envelope.
mrweasel
I was going to ask, because I was under the impression that commercial airlines are mostly flown by auto-pilot anyway.
timewizard
En route. Some carriers prefer pilots to hand fly landings and take offs when the weather allows for it. Maintaining proficiency is a necessity in flight crews.
xtracto
Wheels up, feet up!
null
I feel like I've heard of a rule that there must always be at least two (or maybe exactly to) people in a cockpit in any given time to guard against this as well as hijacking and stuff, am I imagining this or missing something?