Secret Deals, Foreign Investments: The Rise of Trump’s Crypto Firm
108 comments
·April 30, 2025revel
I was a big enough believer in crypto to literally start a company in this space only to leave it completely disenchanted and deeply pessimistic about the direction of the industry. I felt that there were many real legal and regulatory challenges that governments just didn't want to deal with. No government wants to enable money laundering, black markets, corruption and terrorism; or so I thought!
Now we're in a situation that's so much worse than I ever imagined -- Trump coins are vehicles for naked bribery and corruption with a sprinkle of encryption on top. I was worried about black markets, Trump has literally been using his office to grant access to top holders of his scam coin.
This is a big lesson for everyone about why some degree of regulation is necessary.
cruzcampo
It takes a lot of character to admit you were wrong and see the error of your ways. Congrats!
dylan604
>No government wants to enable money laundering, black markets, corruption and terrorism; or so I thought!
what ever gave you that thought? There are countries that do this right out in the open. The rest of the countries do it in various shades of gray to not be right out in the open, but still visible for those that can see in higher bit depths of gray than black and white
bgwalter
Interesting. I thought you could do this in the open:
https://www.theverge.com/news/646426/a-1-million-per-head-di...
Is the Sovereign Bitcoin Fund bailout scam still on the table or is Bitcoin doing well enough so that it isn't needed any longer?
WinstonSmith84
as a "crypto" enthusiast, this is sad to see that he is making this industry looking really bad - obviously he doesn't care, money is money. In the future, maybe even now, we are going to have those associating crypto to Trump ..
The lack of regulations in crypto make these scams legals without any fear of any repercussion
angusturner
The thing is though, once you regulate crypto then what’s the point? You are left with a highly inefficient/expensive and immutable database.
Bitcoin solves (or attempts to solve) for exchange in absence of trust and regulation. But this is a stupid thing to solve for, because without trust and regulation you can’t even have a functioning society.
angusturner
I would actually say that scams and financial crimes seem to be the only concrete use case of the technology at the moment.
(Unless you count speculation/gambling).
WinstonSmith84
> scams and financial crimes seem to be the only concrete use case of the technology
the technology is showing transactions on a public ledger literally (unlike tradfi), nobody is hiding anything (until we go to Monero and similar, but that's different). What's however happening, and we come back to the first point, is the lack of "rules" so that in effect financial "crime" is legal.
echelon
I'm 99% against crypto and think it's mostly a tool for wasting limited human innovation capital, enabling fraud, terrorist financing, ponzi scheme gambling, and pump and dump rug pulling.
There are a few areas where I find crypto interesting or useful:
- The existing banking and payments industry is too Christian / Mormon. It extra-judicially regulates anything it views as "vices". This industry is supposed to be dumb payment rails with hooks for FinCEN to stop crime. It's not supposed to be your pastor. If anything, business integration with regular payment rails would help them be better regulated.
- "Stablecoins" or whatever the hell they're called seem like a wickedly efficient way to move money between businesses and countries without paying large fees or having to wait for clearance. Ideally they can even cut Visa and the fintech monopolies out of the equation. This is more of a B2B rather than consumer / individual application, and it seems genuinely useful. It also seems compatible with the existing FinCEN / FINRA / AML regulations. If you look at it long enough, it doesn't even feel like crypto. Just a new type of efficiency.
The latter may make the former a non-issue, especially if the existing fintech industry receives more competition from upstarts that don't have to pay the legacy gateways and their frictionful fees.
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sigwinch
Some people believe Trump is accidentally advancing things by revealing what needs to be banned. Money in politics, transactional diplomacy with aggressive states, powers of the Executive incautiously delegated by Congress, etc. Cryptocurrency is now on that list. Maybe we should call for a halt until we figure out what’s going on.
instagib
“Under the company’s rules, the Trumps and other World Liberty investors are not allowed to sell their coins on the open market, though the company has said it might eventually lift that restriction if other buyers of the coin agree.”
I have heard this one before.
techterrier
presumably this is what the web 3.0 crowd who backed Trump, including our own hosts, had in mind
cruzcampo
It's time to realize that our "industry leaders" are bad people who are actively enabling fascism in the pursuit of personal power.
faustocarva
Yeah, our host is a big trump supporter
yalogin
The amount of corruption and incompetence ignored by his base is staggering. This is all because they don’t like immigration?
whatever1
No, the current system does not work for most of the people hence the "just nuke it" option sounds like a rational one.
Canadian elections show that people can change their mind overnight, but unfortunately some of the changes that happened in the US institutions and the global relations will take decades to reverse (if ever).
timeon
> sounds like a rational one.
But history has showed (with NSDAP and others) that it is not.
geremiiah
> the current system does not work for most of the people
Bullshit. America is the richest country on earth. Your unemployment is remarkably low. Your disposable income is relatively high. And all the issues you complain about, like housing, are worse outside the US than in the US.
Moreover, a lot of the MAGA people are NOT working class struggling families. There are a lot of middle class middle aged low digit millionaires who are certainly not hurting for anything, but for some reason really love Trump.
adiabatichottub
It's not just simply economic. I'd say it's more like there are many groups of people who do not feel represented by their government. Some of these groups are quite opposed to each other. Add to that politics and media that have become intentionally divisive and you get a society where everybody is mad about or scared of something.
whatever1
How do you explain the majority of 18-25 yo who voted for Trump?
Also from polling the ones who did not vote were also leaning towards Trump. So participation was not the issue.
NickC25
> There are a lot of middle class middle aged low digit millionaires who are certainly not hurting for anything, but for some reason really love Trump.
They love him because he's as degenerate as they are, and makes it cool to be white. Or so I'm told.
Not that I believe any of that, just going by what Trump supporters tell me.
lenerdenator
They're not getting ahead, so... they're burning it down.
dlachausse
You can’t see why average Americans would want a change from many of the Biden Administration’s policies? It has nothing to do with racism, xenophobia, or transphobia. A lot of the policies were just objectively bad for average everyday Americans.
disgruntledphd2
Can you give some examples of policies that were bad for ordinary, everyday Americans?
txcwg002
It's not new and it's far more broad than that. The staggering government corruption and incompetence has been ignored for decades. You can't just pretend that this is suddenly new and one sided.
ujkhsjkdhf234
This both sides thing is so naive. One side is far more corrupt than the other.
txcwg002
It's naive to think it's not both sides. You're literally only seeing half the picture.
dlachausse
This just isn’t true, it is easy to find blatant corruption tied to politicians at all levels from both parties. Look at California, New York, Chicago, and Baltimore, look at the Biden family, the Clintons, Nancy Pelosi, Letitia James, the Democrats are just as corrupt, the mainstream media just reports on it less.
baby_souffle
> This is all because they don’t like immigration?
You could spend an entire college semester discussing how and why. Immigration is the current scapegoat for the effects of a hollowed out middle class, though.
PicassoCTs
No, its because they dislike a elite that ignores them- a decade of deaths of missery while the rulers declared proudly that the line goes up and thus all is good. https://shadac-pdf-files.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-pub...
A elite that fights social welfare as socialism, while at the same time removing the middle class and handing the lower classes infinite competition. Nobody cares about who the elite pretends to care for, nobody cares about corruption, they want to see that house burn down, like theirs was torched. The sounds of humanism the enemy makes, are irrelevant, as the sound of compassion made while doing nothing.
dlachausse
How did you feel about the Biden family’s blatant corruption? Do you really think that Hunter Biden was an amazing artist and brilliant corporate energy sector lawyer that is just falling on hard times now like the rest of us? It’s a weird coincidence that he can’t sell his paintings anymore now that his Dad isn’t politically relevant anymore.
Joe’s brother has also made a lot of money off of questionable government contracts.
everdrive
This is important, and most partisans will get caught up in a discussion about whose corruption was worse. The bigger issue in my mind is that no one wants to police their own side, which leads to absurd flip-flopping hypocrisy every time the other party gains power. "Less bad" corruption is still a very bad thing, whoever you believe to be the more corrupt. But our current political system doesn't seem to have a way to wrestle with this.
sirshmooey
What were their roles in the Biden Administration?
jjtheblunt
Recipients of nepotistic pardons, which is what people find suspicious.
dlachausse
So if Don Junior starts selling finger paintings to Russian oligarchs and Saudi royals you’d be okay with it since he’s not officially part of the administration?
myvoiceismypass
To compare Hunter Biden, a private citizen, making a few paintings, to the actual president of the country grifting with crypto to the tune of billions, is rather something. Especially after watching the 2 billion dollar bailout that Jared Kushner got from the Saudis during the first term.
dlachausse
Jared Kushner is just as much a “private citizen” as Hunter Biden is.
Hunter Biden blatantly and corruptly sold his father’s influence. There’s even evidence that Joe got his “10% for the big guy” on these dealings. It’s a massive disgusting scandal.
For the record I can’t stand when either side pulls this crap. The whole narrative that my side’s politicians are less corrupt than yours needs to end. They’re dividing us into tribes and playing us for fools while the political class robs us blind.
nine_zeros
> This is all because they don’t like immigration?
To win the libs, women, colored, foreigners, woke, dei - as long as they can satisfy their general hatred for "others" they are ok with collapsing America.
hypeatei
I don't see much references to "the swamp" anymore now that we have a sitting president doing a crypto grift. I thought dark money and mysterious figures pulling the strings is conspiracy worthy but I guess not when it's Trump.
gooseus
Well, he drained the swamp, now he's doing what he does best, paving it over and building a soon-to-be-failed casino.
Say what you will about "the swamp" (not a big fan myself), but as a metaphor it kinda works since a swamp may be noxious and filled with unsavory swamp creatures... but it's still an ecosystem where competition and co-evolution amongst these swamp species in response to external environmental changes would still be expected.
binary132
It’s simple, see. I can’t believe nobody has explained this to you yet. Your swamp creatures bad, my swamp creatures good.
LadyCailin
Republicans straight up lie, but their base is too ignorant to see that. Not to mention the propaganda machine that is Fox News brainwashing them.
OR they aren’t ignorant, and are fully aware of things, and instead are scum.
dfxm12
No one is this ignorant, but if Republicans keep killing education, we'll get there one day.
soco
Or, the conspiracies have been proven true, but it's not with those who the conspiracy-lovers would have expected. Not woke, not Soros, but Trump and his gang were running the exact racket. So I suppose now suddenly the racket is good, doublethink by the book.
dfxm12
Every accusation is an admission with these folks.
VeejayRampay
anyone from europe recognizes this immediately as some form of thieving monarchy, it really is ludicrous that is still possible in 2025
mmastrac
As long as you have the Enemy you can run the Grift. Tale as old as money, at least.
whyage
What can be done to stop this flagrant grift?
dboreham
Develop USA2.0 with various bugs fixed: no presidential pardon, supreme court reform, term limits, FBI removed from executive branch, etc.
voidfunc
Gonna need a Civil War 2.0 first.
Loughla
You joke about these things but I'm afraid that's where we're heading.
Trump will close off as much opposition as he can in the next two years. Then spend a year convincing people that term limits aren't required by the constitution. By then we'll have had so many scandals and constitutional crisis events that just get ignored that it will happen.
Am I being overdramatic? Because this feels different. It feels openly hostile.
bediger4000
This article is soft peddling corruption, and it confirms that Trump takes bribes via his cryptocurrency operation.
alistairSH
That this is even remotely surprising to anybody is the only surprising thing about it. He took bribes via his hotel last time. He takes massive donations from Bezos and Zuck and others to his inauguration fund or presidential library or whatever other slush funds he can use to skirt anti-bribery regulations.
dashundchen
Let's not forget the MBS overriding the advice of the Saudi investment board to give $2 billion dollars to Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner. Funds with hefty fees that have barely been invested.
https://www.reuters.com/world/kushner-has-discussed-us-saudi...
These corrupt assholes don't even try to hide it.
basejumping
His son is currently on a tour of eastern europe presenting his crypto 'opportunity' to 'investors'
ChainOfFools
The fact that Bitcoin (and kin) turbocharges corruption, and its success is a direct result of doing so on a wide scale (the whole point is to undermine state power by dwpriving it of control over currency) is proof to the armchair economist Bitcoin supporters that it is "sound money" and things like facilitating a market for circulation of child porn at one end and open political grift at the other, are welcomed as signs that the *experiment" is working as intended in their winner-corrupts-all bitcoin maximalist worldview.
Its called kleptocurrency for good reason.
Those who support it on philosophical grounds will destruction on everyone else for the sake of their own gain, and should be viewed with all possible hostility as they constitute an intentional community of public enemies in the plainest possible sense.
conception
I mean, he took bribes last time via his hotel operation. This just is an upgrade.
TechDebtDevin
I prefer the term, "alternative funding mechsnism" ;)
Thats all Truth Social was. By buying the public stock you could in a way funnel money to Trump that did conflict with campaign finance laws/limits.
People arent buying Truth Social stock because they think its actually worth 5 billion dollars.
maeln
> People arent buying Truth Social stock because they think its actually worth 5 billion dollars.
Well, if you see it as the private presidential corruption fund, it might well be worth well over 5 billion tbf.
mexicocitinluez
[flagged]
tomhow
Please don't comment like this on Hacker News, no matter who it's about. The guidelines contain these relevant lines:
Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
Please don't fulminate.
almostgotcaught
[flagged]
tomhow
Politics-related threads are generally the worst on HN, and if we're going to have them, people need to take extra care to follow the guidelines. In particular, we don't want HN to be a place where it's normal to attack people for their class or intellect.
h2zizzle
That's quite unfair. Trump's support cut across a wide swath of (mostly white) Americans, including educated and/or well-off coastal and Midwest voters. Many, many people who considered themselves well-informed, in the mainstream, and in their right mind, voted for him. And nothing changes until you can convince those people of the truth, which is that they screwed up.
hypeatei
I thought this election had much lower turnout than the last? That coupled with the fact that incumbents lost globally due to inflation, it isn't surprising that Trump won.
Pretending it was because we didn't baby the MAGA voters enough is misguided, IMO.
acdha
Lower turnout for Democrats, not Trump. Most of the stories about some demographic skewing right in 2024 are exaggerating the trend because most of those people voted for him in 2020, too, but many Biden voters stayed home.
(I’m not saying that nobody changed their vote, only that looking at percentage point changes distorts the view unless you factor in disproportionate no-show rates.)
paulette449
"the level of popular education is actually declining. What opinions the masses hold, or do not hold, is looked on as a matter of indifference. They can be granted intellectual liberty because they have no intellect."
piva00
Also, nothing changes while the wedge being driven by the powers who want a populace divide has power, on both sides.
It's by design that those splits happen, when the desk jockeys earning six-figures are seen (and a lot of times, see themselves) as a completely different caste of people than the factory workers, gig workers, etc. it sucks all the air out of the room from real issues: less fortunate people left behind, lack of opportunities, the encroaching of work precarity which will eventually turn even to the current high-earning workers. It completely erases any reasonable public discourse about the real causes of all the social malaise symptoms we experience on the day-to-day.
It's harder to give any sympathy to people voting against their best interests, they've been swindled, bamboozled, and are completely oblivious to the bamboozle, which makes it all the more frustrating. Still, at least extending some pity to their ignorance might help oneself to feel less angry (but still disappointed) about their decisions, they don't know better and it fucking sucks.
mexicocitinluez
> Still, at least extending some pity to their ignorance might help oneself to feel less angry (but still disappointed) about their decisions, they don't know better and it fucking sucks.
The issue is that this isn't a new phenomenon. This has been happening since at least Reagan (over 40 years ago). That cross-section of America has decided to vote against their interests in every major election for decades. I'm over it.
And instead of recognizing that like normal people, they want to push the onus onto literally anything else (immigrants, trans people, higher education). Fuck that. And fuck them for continuing to want to drag us back to the stone age.
mexicocitinluez
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alistairSH
Many of those voters aren't ill-informed, they're simply ok with a dictatorial jackass running the county, so long as that dictatorial jackass looks and acts like them, and does the things that agree with their world-view.
thefounder
People voted Trump for different reasons. Not understanding their reasons does not make you smarter. They were not all low IQ. Ignoring a big chunk of the population because they are "racist", "bigots" and "single-digit IQ yokels" will make you loose the next election to whoever decides to listen to them instead to lecture them.
Do that multiple times and you may end-up with a dicator(or at least someone who can become a dictator) sooner or later.
awongh
> "racist", "bigots" and "single-digit IQ yokels" One of the narratives I hear repeated a lot that is simply untrue is around white americans. Trump doubled his numbers for minority (male) voters vs. the last time he was elected.
But rather than coming up with a new, more nuanced view of what's happening people would rather trot out old tropes like *republicans are white and racist and bad*.
Even with all the anti-immigrant stuff Trump increased his share of non-native born american voters.
The refusal of people on the left to update their world view was one of the big reasons why they lost the election.
I thought this Ezra Klien interview taling about election polling data was informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx0J7dIlL7c
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ecshafer
That is precisely the attitude that those “yokels” decided they would fully back Trump. When people are abandoned by the economic and political system, someone coming in telling them that they will get revenge, is how you get a enthusiastic supporters.
voidfunc
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mexicocitinluez
They've voted against their own interests (aka Republican) for the last 40 years and people still have the gall to be like "You can't call them stupid".
https://archive.md/iHaIo