Woman who tricked her way into men-only Magic Circle allowed in
20 comments
·April 24, 2025Ferret7446
Brian_K_White
I feel like in either case any opinion should have to depend on how the group explians the purpose of it's policy, and has to actually be merely a "social group" with no material consequences to membership.
People seem to have an opinion that reflects the nature of both points here.
locopati
Yes. It's called a power imbalance. The two things are not equivalent for that reason.
username135
Id go with double standard
locopati
Then you're not acknowledging that a group for men that has a specific kind of power within a certain sphere that has excluded women is very different than a group for women in that same sphere. There is no uniform rule that can be applied, which is where you're getting tripped up. Uniform rules often favors control by those who have power.
schiffern
Justice is done.
You would think that magicians, of all people, would appreciate a well-executed and harmless deception. More proof that no matter who you are, nobody likes being the butt of the trick...
milesrout
Disagree that "justice is done". She lied her way in in the first place.
Why shouldn't private groups be permitted to be male-only? There are plenty of female-only groups out there.
As soon as a male space allows women in, its character changes. It is good that there are still spaces for men and spaces for women and mixed spaces, if you ask me.
kryptiskt
The Magic Circle is selling itself as "the world's premier magic society", complete with titles. That's not a harmless men's club, excluding women from that makes it harder for them to make it as professional magicians.
As for the immorality of deceiving a bunch of professional magicians, spare me. Literally no harm was done.
koonsolo
As long as the other sex also has the same opportunity to join a similar group, I agree.
But when there is no proper alternative for a man or woman to join a similar club, it's more about the exclusion of people with the same interest but happen to have the wrong sex.
mcphage
> She lied her way in in the first place.
“Illusion, Michael. A trick is something that a whore does for money.”
scotty79
You could say the same about the race but it sounds kind of racist.
anal_reactor
Cue black-focused events.
anal_reactor
You can't have diversity without exclusion. In order to create a space that has some vibe different from the lowest common denominator of general public, you need to exclude everyone except some groups. Case in point: when I'm organizing a house party, I avoid inviting people who would ruin the vibe, even if they're otherwise fine people.
As much as some people hate to admit this, the recent cultural shift overcorrected towards feminism and non-white races. I'm not saying that Andrew Tate will become mainstream, but I guess in near future it will become acceptable again to shamelessly be a white straight man.
locopati
That's totally acceptable. It's being an unrepentant asshole that people have troubles with.
null
mellosouls
Its a shame it needed a female leader of the Magic Circle to make this happen. Neither the original story, the ridiculous, petulant response or long time to a resolution are a good look for the society.
l33tbro
Exactly. It should have been a man who decided, who would have surely banished this imposter on the grounds of sedition and harlotry.
unsupp0rted
Indeed. I wish the entirety of the Magic Circle were female from the start, to avoid discrimination of this sort.
Men should be moved to their own separate social and professional clubs, where they can't disenfranchise anybody.
mcphage
> Sophie Lloyd says she disguised herself as a man to fool examiners into letting her join the elite society in 1991, at a time female magicians were not allowed to be members.
> When the Circle announced it was permitting women to join later that year, Ms Lloyd revealed her deception, prompting the society to expel her at the very same meeting it admitted its first female magicians.
> But the Magic Circle did not take kindly to the news. The duo got a letter saying that Raymond had been expelled, and in October 1991, at the first meeting accepting women into the society, Ms Lloyd was kicked out.
Interesting—there was a fantasy novel with much the same premise that came out in early 1992—The Lark and the Wren. Just with bards, instead of magicians. I wonder if these real events were an inspiration?
decremental
[dead]
I feel like people would have a different reaction to a man who tricked his way into a women-only social group.