Blue Prince is a roguelike puzzle masterpiece
104 comments
·April 9, 2025throwerofstone
magicalhippo
I read this[1] review on Steam which also raises the same point as you.
The thing that made The Talos Principle, The Witness[2] and similar games so great was that they spent a lot of time on designing the puzzles.
I'm not opposed to a Groundhog Day sort of scenario, but in that case it really needs to be done well, like The Stanley Parable, not just rely on pure RNG. If you want to use RNG you really should have some constraint system involved to ensure at least some progress could have been made by the player.
[1]: https://steamcommunity.com/id/ADHunter/recommended/1569580/
[2]: If you've played The Witness but haven't played The Looker, you've been missing out IMHO.
square_usual
I generally have the same frustration with roguelites as you seem to: every time I start a run, it feels like I'm gambling whether I'll have any fun at all. A bad seed or start can mean losing in ways that feel unfair or boring, like in balatro if you get a bunch of bad hands and bad jokers, you struggle through rounds and hands until you either lose or get an interesting combination. I don't need that kind of gambling in my life when there's tons of games out there where I know I will have fun.
E: I still quite like Balatro - when it works it's a blast. I'll also still try out Blue Prince because people I respect seem to like it.
esperent
> I still quite like Balatro - when it works it's a blast
I enjoyed Balatro for quite a few hours before I had this problem, which is more than enough for me to call it a good game.
Beyond these first few hours though, you need ridiculously high multipliers to succeed. There's way too many jokers and 90% of them are trash by this point. The ones you need have vanishingly small probabilities, and then you need to add those probabilities together to get the combo of jokers required.
I would start a run, and within the first few minutes I would know that the RNG hadn't given me what I needed, reset, start again, repeat.
I looked up some guides, and they'd recommend using specific legendary jokers, which over my entire time playing (maybe 15 hours?) I didn't encounter even once. The only way to get them would be to play hundreds or even thousands of times.
At that point, it doesn't feel like a game anymore. It feels like a gambling addiction.
For me, that's time to call it quits. But I do wonder if the same people who struggle with gambling addiction in the real world are the ones who continue playing here.
At least with Balatro there is ten hours worth of game before your reach this point.
dluan
Hades is fun because there is some skill involved with the button mashing to go with the RNG, but it feels like too many games are just dressed up gambling mechanics these days. Balatro is too naked and bare with being clever gambling, plus all the ding ding ding slot machine dopamine special effects.
DanielVZ
One common mantra about most roguelites is that every run can be a successful run if you play your cards right. Some will be harder, in others you’ll become unstoppable, but the general idea is that once you get good enough you should be able to win runs. I’m not sure if this holds and is extremely dependent on how balanced the game is, but I think it’s a sane way to approach the genre since it pushes you to improve and generally becomes a rule once you become good enough at some of the games.
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tstrimple
One of the key differences between rogue lites and rogue likes is meta progression. In most roguelites you're able to unlock things and get more powerful for future runs. In roguelikes you always have the same starting rng. I definitely agree with you that it's all up to the game to balance the progression through both unlocks and skill improvement so it's not entirely rng. But I also don't think many put much effort into "every run is solvable". Especially for roguelikes.
khill
I've played for about an hour and agree with your assessment. I still have it installed but I doubt I will revisit it.
I've switched to South of Midnight and it's amazing. Not everyone's type of game - and certainly not a puzzle game - but the graphics, music, story, and gameplay combine to make it one of the best games I've played in a long, long time.
crtasm
I've played about an hour and am getting the feeling I won't see it through to an ending.
For anyone wanting a non-RNG puzzler set around a large building I highly recommend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorelei_and_the_Laser_Eyes
graynk
Lorelei is pretty great in its atmosphere, though the puzzles can be quite disappointing. 80% of the time the solution is "you're overthinking it, it's a number written down somewhere"
Still, I 100%-ed and enjoyed it. Also a shameless plug: I made a mod that tweaks controls to add a back button, a map button, and to allow code locks to spin in both directions
notnaut
Having played both of these games I agree that Lorelei stands out as a sort of foil for blue prince. And my opinion is that that is a huge endorsement of blue prince. Lorelei’s puzzles felt so inelegant and largely detached from the ideas being explored. Felt like a logic puzzle book, with some esoteric story stuff on top that just did not keep me interested.
Blue prince’s rng is quite well thought out imo. Once you pick up on some of the unwritten rules about the room drafting system and start building strategies around what to prioritize and how to adjust your goals, it starts feeling a lot like many other popular card-based strategy games.
There are weak points, for sure, and your contrasting it with Lorelei makes sense. But Lorelei’s puzzles felt so plain and unchallenging. I like that blue prince is keeping me on my toes.
gs17
> solved the same two puzzles for resources
I'm eager to play more, but this is something that was a worry already an hour in. The logic puzzle I did was good enough and seems like it can be generated procedurally well enough, the "math" puzzle I did wasn't. There's more than that, right?
> and some clues that I can only experiment with if the RNG deems me worthy.
And on top of that, it's hard to know if those clues actually will matter in other runs. I found a safe code in one run. If it takes three runs before the RNG decides the room with the safe will be there, will the code be randomized? I've been trying to avoid spoilers so it's hard to know what matters.
aqme28
There are plenty more puzzles than that. Some of them sort of metapuzzles
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ekorz
I was also sad to hear about how much RNG is in the game, that is a detractor to what seems like a well put together experience otherwise. If you wanted to give something else a try, and have a PC, I made a first-person puzzle game that's (hopefully) more akin to Antichamber and the puzzle bits of Outer Wilds, called Chroma Zero. There's a demo on steam if you just want to dip your toe in. https://store.steampowered.com/app/3121470/Chroma_Zero/
adrianhon
OP here: I can see how that would be frustrating and I do touch on that in my piece. It’s not my job to convince you that you should like it, but I would say that the mystery and atmosphere and sense of discovery is what pulled me through the first hours where I wasn’t sure what was going on. If those things don’t chime with you, it can be a slog. What I’ve told other people is that it’s better not to view the game as a race but more a place to explore.
kbrackbill
I'm about 8 hours in and really enjoying it, but I feel like I can see this in my future. For now I have so many puzzles/threads going that even if one doesn't work on a run because of RNG I'm still making progress somewhere else, but I could see that drying up a bit as I solve more things and want to focus on something specific.
The puzzles for resources you mention are by far the worst part for me. I really wish there were a way to say "I get it, I know how to solve simple logic puzzles and do basic arithmetic, just give me the stuff".
galleywest200
I have been playing this game and it is really a blast. The tutorial note cards strongly recommend using a pen+paper while playing and I can second that as pretty much required for some of the more "meta" puzzles.
Worth noting that I believe it is also on Gamepass and whatever Sony's version of Gamepass is called if you already had those services and wished to save a few bucks.
falcor84
> whatever Sony's version of Gamepass is called
Just mentioning that it's PS Plus, and the game was made available on their Extra & Premium tiers at launch [0], which is nice, as they typically release all the games on the same day in the middle of the month.
[0] https://blog.playstation.com/2025/04/09/playstation-plus-gam...
P.S. "Lost Records: Bloom & Rage", the second half of which is due to come out in a couple of days is very different, but highly recommended too, especially in its emotional vibes and how well they integrated the VHS camera into the gameplay.
gs17
> The tutorial note cards strongly recommend using a pen+paper while playing
This is my largest complaint. The game should really have a notepad built in. It doesn't need to write down clues for me, but it would be nice to not have to find where my notes were if I put the game down for a long time. Is it that it's a console release?
aqme28
It’s an indie game. I think that adding a full-fledged note system with as much creativity as paper+pen is a big undertaking and perhaps not the best use of resources for the developer
detaro
if you play on PC through Steam, Steam at least has a notes function in the overlay nowadays: https://www.polygon.com/2023/4/28/23702656/steam-beta-update...
Anon1096
I don't recommend using it, there's unfortunately a bug where your notes will not save randomly and just disappear between sessions. Which for a note taking feature basically makes it usuable. You can find discussions about the bug on steam ex https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/6679490218977...
gs17
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure adding Game Pass games to Steam isn't really compatible with that. It looks like there was a "notes" app for the Windows "Game Bar", but it's no longer available.
SamBam
I haven't played this, but I played Obra Dinn, which the review mentions, and I really don't think digital notes would have been nearly as good as pencil and paper. I really needed to draw arrows between things, sketch out a timeline, put question marks around ideas, etc. Pencil and paper is just so much more expressive.
Secretmapper
I think the option would be great regardless. What you say is true - pen and paper is more expressive than digital notes, but digital notes is better than nothing.
I played Obra Dinn without pen and paper and I was fine.
There was a game called The Roottrees are dead which is based on Obra dinn with a built in journal system and it is really useful.
rjh29
I've played 10 hours ish and it needs pen and paper notes. A text notepad probably won't work
RamRodification
So many games desperately need this feature. Almost all games could benefit from it to some degree. I see zero negative consequences to adding it to every single game in existence just in case someone wants it.
nlawalker
Thanks for this callout, I was looking at the reviews here and on Steam and waffling, but I've got Game Pass.
Also, re: notepad writing: if you've got two monitors, it Alt+Tabs just fine. I'm writing this as the opening credits play.
npinsker
> I don’t like what they do to me. I shudder to think how they could supercharge builders like Dorfromantik, Carcassonne, and Castles of Mad King Ludwig.
A very similar mechanic is used in the popular board game Betrayal at House on the Hill. That game's arguably even worse because it has stat upgrades!
tstrimple
I really want to like the super crunchy board games, but it turns out after 90 minutes of setup no one else wants to play anymore. And it's exhausting being the only person willing to learn the rules to teach everyone else. We literally only setup and played Gloomhaven once. I need a better board game group.
riffraff
> As with other roguelikes, you can unlock persistent upgrades that smooth over repetitive parts of the game.
I think those are called rogue-lites, for the reason that real rogue-likes (e.g. nethack, DCSS) actually wipe out all your progress on each attempt.
skyyler
At this point, times have shifted, and meta-progression is usually considered an aspect of modern roguelikes. There was a trend of calling them "rogue-lites" but that's faded and now games like ADOM and DCSS are "Classic roguelikes"
It's not a hard and fast rule or anything, just what I've observed in gaming discussions.
chongli
That’s a shame, because meta-progression ultimately undermines the spirit of these classic games.
Roguelikes were designed to play like arcade games in that you’d always start over from scratch and try to get a high score. Most attempts ended in failure but as you got better at the game it was reflected in your score. Even after players achieve a high degree of expertise they still find the games challenging to win and so they keep playing and enjoying them for years to come.
Meta-progression takes away the from-scratch element and just allows you to win through sheer persistence, chipping away at the problem until it’s easy enough for you to finish it in one final run. But then what? The game is no longer the same challenge it was when you first started. It’s like a mountain that keeps getting smaller every time you attempt to climb it, until it’s finally shrunk to the size of an anthill. This is not a recipe for a game you can play for many years.
Ultimately, what meta-progression does is turn a roguelike into a standard narrative RPG just like any other. This is one where the player’s goal is to reach the end of the game and that’s it, not to learn the game’s systems and reach a high level of mastery.
jncfhnb
Eh, idk. Theres an argument to be had that meta progression tends to cap in most of these games so eventually it becomes a stable thing.
Although generally I find the meta progression of things goes too far and starts off too weak.
uses
Indeed, the distinction used to be useful. But now, it's not useful because honest-to-God roguelikes are just not getting made outside hobby projects. Meanwhile, roguelites have become a core pillar of modern gaming, artistically and commercially. I think calling roguelites roguelikes is perfectly fine. It's simply what the genre became.
chongli
I prefer that they be hobby projects or solo-developer crowdfunded efforts. Generally, I find that the traditional (waterfall) lifecycle of commercial games is not conducive to a good Roguelike. This is because the game is quickly shifted into maintenance-mode after release and stops receiving major updates soon after.
Roguelikes really benefit from long-term development and continual balancing, new content, and quality of life updates in response to feedback from players. These are games meant to be played and mastered over the course of several years. Traditional commercial game releases are much better suited to one-and-done style single play-throughs.
The other major commercial model, the subscription- or microtransaction-supported long-term game development, such as you'd see with popular multiplayer games like Fortnite or League of Legends, would seem to be a viable alternative for Roguelike development. I don't think it would work out in practice, however, since most gamers don't seem to be interested in playing a game to mastery unless it involves a high level of competitive play.
card_zero
That's horrible, but I can't stop you.
TulliusCicero
Traditional roguelike is the term I see on Reddit and Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Traditional+Roguelike
Traditional roguelikes seem cool in theory, but I like co-op for most of my PvE content, and like most turn-based games, no co-op to be had there.
ajkjk
I kinda disagree? mostly I see people use roguelite to refer to roguelikes with progression and roguelike for those without. But I suppose both are also called roguelike as a gloss.
taejo
NetHack does have ghost files (where you find the levels previous characters died on, including their ghost and their possibly-cursed loot). It's definitely not the same kind of progression as in modern rogue-lites, but it can be a boost to pick up the equipment you found on a previous run.
chongli
Do note that enemies can also pick up that old equipment and use it against you. I lost a promising character during the last November NetHack Tournament [1] because a gnome picked up a wand of fire from someone’s grave and blasted me with it.
Yeah that’s another difference. When you play NetHack online [2] [3] you run into the ghosts and graves of other players, not just your own previous characters. I have run into levels online with the ghosts of 3 different people who were all killed by various dangerous monsters that kept accumulating more powerful equipment from each victim. It can be quite ridiculous!
nameless912
Already contender for my favorite puzzle game of the year. I would compare it to Outer Wilds or Animal Well, but that would do all three games a disservice. Blue Prince is a thoroughly unique game that is worth your time. And like another commenter said, a pad of paper is _absolutely required_.
taeric
I just picked this up. Curious if this will be one I can play with the kids while we are going to bed in the evenings. For a long time, that was prime time to play Slay the Spire, as it will get them to go to sleep. :D
gs17
I'd imagine it probably will get them to go to sleep, but mostly because they'll be watching a lot of walking up and down corridors.
egypturnash
It's got a bedtime story kind of vibe.
gs17
With the shifting rooms, it's almost dream-like.
airstrike
Been wanting to build a metroidvaniaroguelike on evenings and weekends and this gives me a few ideas to noodle on... thanks for sharing
blindriver
I tried playing this after buying it, but it was not what I expected. There was a lot of FPS moving around and aiming and that makes me nauseous so I had to turn it off. I guess there's no refunds on PS games unfortunately.
NelsonMinar
The buzz on this game is very strong. The Triple Click podcast just loves it: https://maximumfun.org/episodes/triple-click/blue-prince-rea...
billfruit
Dungeon of the Endless is another interesting game about essentially opening rooms/doors. The frantic rush to move the diamond thing to the last room while swarming alien creatures try to stop you is very interesting.
zkiihne
From the maker(s) of mythicspoiler.com
davidpfarrell
OP: A single giveaway just popped up on SteamGifts today:
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/bloms/blue-prince
Is this you?
adrianhon
Nope.
After playing the game for 10+ hours and dropping it out of sheer frustration, I came to the conclusion that I must have been playing a vastly different game than the people praising it.
The first hour was great. I was constantly encountering new rooms and solving puzzles. The many times where the game decided to give me nothing but rooms leading to dead ends was annoying, but I still had things to explore in the next run so it didn't matter that much. After that first hour, the game became a slog. I encountered the same rooms, solved the same two puzzles for resources and was constantly praying for the RNG to give me something new. There is some RNG manipulation, but not enough to mitigate the boring part of the game. There are a few interesting overarching puzzles, but most of them are wrapped in multiple layers of RNG.
For example, for one puzzle you need a specific item that randomly spawns, use it in a room that randomly spawns which you need to unlock with another room that also randomly spawns. It took me 6 hours for the game to give me a run where I got all three of those things in a single run. The reward? Some resources that I have next to no use for and some clues that I can only experiment with if the RNG deems me worthy.
I have absolutely no idea where the praise for the game comes from. Maybe this game is perfect for those who are really into roguelites, but for me personally it just feels like the game is wasting my time for no reason at all.