Apple's mouse is so bad Tim Cook uses another brand at work (2024)
83 comments
·April 7, 2025owenversteeg
compsciphd
people shouldn't want to click through the article, as its not just contentless, but debunked.
https://wccftech.com/tim-cool-does-not-prefer-logitech-mx-ma...
Tomte
I brought my MX Master 3 to a brand new Mac mini and was terribly confused. Mouse movement was janky, jumpy, unusable.
It turns out that you need third party tools for non-Apple mice, like Mac Mouse Fix.
Keyboard isn't much better, since Apple encourages you to bring your own keyboard, but doesn't even ship a keymap for PC keyboards.
JohnBooty
It turns out that you need third party tools for
non-Apple mice, like Mac Mouse Fix.
It's been many years (10?) since I tried a 3rd party BT mouse with Macs. I remember it always sucking with both Logitech and (I think?) Microsoft mice.
FWIW they've always worked flawlessly with the previous-generation Logitech Nano receivers. I dunno anything about these "Logitech Bolt" receivers, other than that they appear to be USB-C and not USB-A which is kind of maddening.
hnuser123456
There are Type A Bolt receivers. I've ordered an extra on its own.
thiht
Everyone I know uses the MX Master 3. It's an amazing mouse, and it's the only one on the market that checks all my criteria (horizontal wheel, free wheel mode, and support for macOS gestures via the thumb button)
jsbisviewtiful
> support for macOS gestures via the thumb button
Ooo - didn't know about that. Will have to test it out
callc
Same here. I love mine.
The only thing I would wish for in a v4 is faster polling rate. I think it’s 1000 hz now. So not the best for gaming.
db48x
I rather like the MX Master to, but I wish that they made a wired mouse in the same shape. After a few years the battery capacity has dropped and I feel like I am charging it every other night.
seec
Fundamentaly wireless products without easily replaceable batteries are products made to benefit the company more than the user.
Even if we accept that wireless is "better", having the battery easily swappable in a few seconds would cost nothing and make the product much better.
And I don't think cables are that big of a problem on mouse, especially if they are correctly engineered with enough length, you just don't notice them and it's more a look thing that anything else really. This is particularly true if you heavily use the computer and the mouse, the benefits of wireless are badly counterbalanced by the annoyance of battery management. Freedom has a cost that is not always really worth it.
At least in the MX Master case you can use it wired if you wish, so it's not too bad.
JohnTHaller
iFixit sells a replacement battery for $25 and has the instructions for replacing it on their site: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Logitech+MX+Master+3+Battery+Re...
tombert
When I worked at Apple, I didn't use the Apple mouse either. I used a USB gaming mouse that fit my hand a bit better. I wasn't the only one, and it wasn't weird in the office. Most people didn't use Apple monitors either, I believe mine was an LG, though I don't remember for sure.
I think there's this perception that Apple is this authoritarian company that will execute you for using any competitors' product, but that really wasn't the case. When COVID hit, I bought a giant Samsung TV to use as a monitor, expensed it, and it was approved within the same day. For the first six months I was there, I used an Android, and it worked fine enough for that, even for 2FA stuff.
I don't really blame Tim Cook for using a different brand of mouse. It doesn't even imply that it's bad, just not the one he uses.
I will complain about my time at Apple all the time, but this is not something that I thought they were bad about.
tylerflick
But the Apple Mouse is terrible (ergonomically at least). I’m confused why a company so focused on accessibility has ignored iterating on this product.
m463
I think companies get entrenched dysfunction that nobody can conquer.
Apple mice have always been bad.
One button mice were "simpler", but if everybody had to also learn to press control+click it wasn't really one-button.
Ahd how did they ever ship that round mouse you could never orient? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_puck_mouse
By thw way, have you ever tried to use a mighty mouse with an FPS game? It doesn't really work. Most games use one button for fire, the other for zoom. But you have to lift your fire finger off the mouse to click the zoom button.
the magic mouse... even worse.
I won't even go into games and apple, they're bad at that too.
Tesla is going down the same road, removing stalks and everything on the touchscreen.
JohnBooty
Apple's eternal failure to make a decent mouse is, without exaggeration, probably the most baffling longstanding technology puzzle in the world to me.
Far from the most important mystery. But, the most baffling.
It's just bizarre because they tend to get other ergo factors right, such as making the best touchpads in the business.
Their 5-year nightmare of bad laptop keyboards was frustrating but at least there was an explanation: it seemed to pretty clearly be an artifact of Ive prioritizing thinness over functionality, and thankfully they belatedly righted themselves. The mouse situation just has no obvious explanation.
One can only imagine that the team responsible for designing the mice is some kind of third-class citizen inside Apple. But like... have the people on that team ever used their own products?!? How does that team use their own crap, and then use a Logitech mouse or even a $12 generic mouse from Amazon, and think they are competitive?
tombert
I know people who actually like it. I've never been a fan, I don't like the little scroll clit that it has, I've always plugged in a USB mouse, but there are definitely people who like it.
I think it's like the IBM keyboard nipple. I have one on my Thinkpad, but I never use it, but I know some people who refuse to use anything else.
ETA:
I never liked the multitouch mice either.
PlunderBunny
Are you confusing the Apple Mouse and the (Apple) Magic Mouse?
shuckles
Because almost no Apple users use a mouse. How many iMacs does Apple sell relative to trackpad devices? It’d be a waste of R&D resources.
jeffbee
At this point the question is why the iMac still comes with the mouse. The Magic Trackpad is much better and all of Apple's software is designed for it.
throwaway48476
It implies they know there's a problem with their products but are unwilling to address them.
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benoau
> I think there's this perception that Apple is this authoritarian company that will execute you for using any competitors' product, but that really wasn't the case.
They have cultivated this like a bonsai, carefully making a thousand precision papercuts to ensure competitors have to be inferior. And Schiller testified a few weeks ago that Cook is the artist.
syspec
It's likely The LG monitor at the time was the only retina monitor available. The Cinema Display was rather old, and newer Apple displays were not yet released
beloch
Given that Apple was the first home computer maker to offer mice, it's odd how they've lagged behind pretty much ever since. e.g. For a brief while they sold perfectly round "puck" mice that you had to look at to orient every time you grasped them (These are the worst mice I've ever used.). If you didn't grasp them just right, X and Y would become a nausea-inducing mix of XY and YX. It also took Apple decades to finally admit that, yes, at least some users would like more than one button on their mouse. Who else honestly thought that they'd have moved the charging port on their current mice by now?
It's been the same since the 90's. If you buy a mac, the first thing you should do is replace the mouse.
an0malous
They haven’t lagged behind, they started designing around a trackpad which has more gesture affordances and is consistent with their other devices. I use their Magic Trackpad and prefer it over a mouse
bitsandboots
I disagree, but you know having different preferences is fine. I think the trackpad of the macbook is the worst trackpad I've ever used, typing from an m1 mbp right now and wish it had distinct right & left mouse buttons. But the nice thing is you can buy a variety of form factors that suit your needs. Unless its Apple, in which you get basically one thing take it or leave it.
wruza
The mouse could still be useful though. Apple mouse is just horrible in most regards, and no trackpad can offset this fact, despite being a head and a half above any competition.
weikju
I thought this was debunked last year? [0]
> Soon after, The Verge's Wes Davis attempted to replicate using every Apple product in a single day. During that day, Davis said he mostly used the MX Master 3, but sometimes switched to a Magic Mouse or Magic Trackpad.
> In other words, it was Davis who said he himself used a Logitech mouse, not Cook.
As usual though, rebuttals/acquittals/etc never get as much traction as the original bs or accusations...
[0] https://www.macrumors.com/2024/11/17/tim-cook-didnt-say-that...
gnabgib
(2024) Verge story Tim Cook says he uses every Apple product every day — how does that work? (https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/22/24276142/tim-cook-wsj-in...)
> I mostly use a Logitech MX Master 3 but sometimes switch to a Magic Mouse or Magic Trackpad for funsies.
Which references a WSJ story, but either that was edited, or the link is wrong https://www.wsj.com/style/tim-cook-interview-apple-intellige... https://archive.is/3TwLu
mattl
People love to dunk on the USB port being on the bottom.
The USB port isn’t the issue: you plug in your mouse, go make a cup of coffee or go get your lunch and your mouse is fine in a few minutes.
The bigger issue is that it’s not a very nice to use mouse. Apple mice haven’t been good in a while.
Magic Trackpad on the other hand is fantastic.
ndiddy
People dunk on the USB port being on the bottom because it's an example of how comically opinionated Apple's design is. Even if it only takes a few minutes to charge, Apple decided to make the mouse unusable during those few minutes because they don't want people using their wireless mouse as a wired mouse.
mattl
I don’t think it’s that: I think it’s just an uncomfortable mouse that used to run on a pair of Duracell batteries and they did a quick job to replace that with a rechargeable battery.
happytoexplain
I rarely see something this hard to relate to - I think I'm pretty open-minded.
I don't get 10% as angry as most people regarding e.g. removing the audio jack, the MacBook USB power port, the touch bar, the shape of the mouse, lack of side-loading on iOS, app store rules, etc etc. Those were/are all bad - but I also see the other side of all of them.
The USB port being on the bottom of the mouse isn't in that list. It's like seeing insanity in a physical form. It's unaccountable.
mattl
The bottom is the best place for it. It would look really bad on the top and the rest of the mouse is kinda thin.
Also the port is a retrofit over the previous model which took a pair of AA batteries.
It’s not some terrible design choice from Apple, it’s a lazy revision to an old removable battery mouse without much effort needed to update the plastic tooling to make it.
Nullabillity
Yet somehow the whole rest of the industry manages to put it at the front, where it doesn't get in the way.
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arvinsim
Of course people would criticize the port placement.
For a company that prides itself for having very good UX and "it just works", the decision to put the port on the bottom is indefensible.
Nullabillity
My non-Apple wireless mouse supports being used as a wired mouse, and it's great!
Worrying about the battery goes from a question of "rarely" to "literally never". And I never have to ask myself where the dongle is, which computer it's paired to, or the amount of wireless interference from my neighbors.
fuzzythinker
The Trackpad is not fantastic. It's way too wide, triggering mouse clicks while typing, erasing and typing over elsewhere.
mattl
Typing with one hand on the keyboard and one on the built-in trackpad?
fuzzythinker
I have it placed below the keyboard, like in a laptop. I don't see how the right or left side placement is good for hand travel time. If I don't mind that, I would have used a mouse.
t-writescode
I don't think the Apple Mouse is intended to compete with any power-user mouse like The Logitech MX 3 or any gaming mouse from Razer, Logitech, whoever.
It's meant to compete with the junky little thing you get with your PC that's wired, with who-knows-what DPI and 3 buttons at best. It's meant to be something that slips into your laptop bag and doesn't add *any* more bulk than the laptop itself.
So, editorialized, "of course" he's not going to be using an entry level mouse for power user usage.
That doesn't change the reality of how good or bad Apple's mouse is because it's not being sold to a power user. From what I've seen, power users tend to use that magic track pad thing, if they're Apple power users using Apple things.
JohnBooty
junky little thing you get with your PC that's wired
Mine is that generic ultra-cheap wired optical mice have been Totally Fine™ now for roughly 20 years! It's a completely solved problem.
They track fine, they have more than enough DPI for anybody except maybe hardcore twitch action gamers, and they all have vaguely ergonomic sculpted shapes.
Apple's mice lose out for me before I move the pointer because the first thing I notice is that the shape of the mouse itself has more or less no correlation with the shape of a human hand. It always feels like you're grasping some weird foreign object.
bitsandboots
> It's meant to compete with the junky little thing you get with your PC that's wired, with who-knows-what DPI and 3 buttons at best.
Of all the strange things Apple decides to compete in, why would Apple be trying to compete with logitech at twice the price? Honestly don't know why Apple bothers with peripherals though, its not like their keyboards are worth writing home about either.
jillyboel
That's why they charge more for it than many of the superior alternatives do?
t-writescode
They're Apple doing Apple things. While many of their products are reasonably priced when compared against the alternative, they're also very famous for having outlandish prices if you, for example, increase drive storage.
It's known as the Apple Tax because it's common.
arvinsim
I disagree about it being marketed only to non-power users. It can't even compete on ergonomics vs everyday mouse.
Non-power users have complained about getting RSI because of it.
duxup
Like keyboards and monitors I think Apple has long since been ok with most folks not using Apple devices for those uses.
If you want some stylish things there ya go. More specific features, yeah go get that.
k310
I can't stop the magic mouse from vertical scrolling in GIMP, which zooms the view insanely in and out when the command key is down, or which blasts my fine tracing job to hell at times.
I can't stop horizontal scrolling when I absolutely don't want it. I tried all the mouse settings and probed the mysteries of GIMP key remapping (it still may be there)
Excellent resolution, but sometimes freaky to use.
I really don't want to pay for software to fix all this.
I got an MX keys keyboard because Apple doesn't sell a lighted one except in laptops.
Glyptodon
I'm convinced one of their (Apple's) mice basically permanently messed up my wrist from ~ 1 month of use.
syspec
Am I the only one in the world who absolutely loves the Magic Mouse. Aside from gaming it's just so comfortable, scrolling is a dream with inertia no one else has figured out how to mimic, and the gestures are natural.
Plus horizontally scrolling on long lines of code (or terminal output) is unbeatable.
JohnBooty
Am I the only one in the world who absolutely loves the Magic Mouse.
(I don't think that's bad or wrong. Input devices are very personal. I am glad they work for you)
nittanymount
I like the magic mouse a lot too. before this one, I used the dell mouse for years, have to bent the wrist. and hurt over time. after switching to apple magic mouse. it has been no problem for years !
PlunderBunny
I find the Magic Mouse a bit too small for my hand, but the touch surface inertial scrolling is so good I wouldn't switch to anything else on that basis alone.
senordevnyc
No, you’re not. I love the Magic Mouse and I’ve been using it religiously as a SWE for like 15 years now.
For those that don’t want to click on this mostly contentless article, it’s the MX Master 3.
I also have one and I can confirm that it’s a hell of a mouse. I would recommend it for nearly every type of intensive computer work: web browser stuff, CAD, software development, spreadsheets, editing tasks, anything really. I’ve had people try to convince me to switch before and I never believed it’d make a difference until eventually a friend (mechanical engineer) just gave me hers and now I can’t live without it.
Tip, if you don’t want to use the Logitech bloatware the apps LinearMouse and Mac Mouse Fix are both open source and help you get some of the advanced functionality back.