Play the Virtual Organ from Arp Schnitger
29 comments
·March 23, 2025josephernest
vunderba
Very cool! I'd be curious what you think of Modartt's recent attempts at physical models of organs and how they compare to more traditional sampler approaches.
smj-edison
Not OP, but I've worked on programming my own organ software before. I'd say physical modelling really cool tech, but the question is whether it makes a significant auditory difference.
The thing is organs are a lot easier to sample compared to something like a violin. I'm oversimplifying, but it's mainly just note on, note off, vs lots of articulations where physical modelling is more beneficial. (Yes, there's wind sag, and wind delay, and regulators, but most organs specifically have things to avoid those artifacts so they'd only show up on more niche organs imo.) I've had great success simulating tremulants by just using FM demodulation to reconstruct the pitch and volume effects from tremmed samples[1]. Release samples are also difficult to match with the current phase, but I was also able to mitigate that with a single bin DFT + crossfaded.
Another issue with physical modelling is it's decently CPU intensive, which is tricky when you have 700 simultaneous notes on bigger organs. So, it's definitely cool, but the question is whether it's significantly better than current sample-based technology. It could potentially reproduce some of the more strange interactions, but those interactions aren't necessarily wanted in the first place.
EDIT: one thing that is nice about physical modelling is it's a lot easier to voice (modify) a pipe to the sound one wants. I think with some special filtering (comb filter for even harmonic attenuation, shelf for augmenting the harmonic series trajectory) voicing could also be satisfactory with traditional sampling (hauptwerk does some of this, but I think I could make it even more flexible).
mattgreenrocks
Physical modeling seems to work really well for guitar/bass amplifiers. The Fractal Audio products are all based around simulating the various components of an amp and the ways they interact with each other, often with very unexpected results. They've been pushing in this direction for quite awhile, but I think it is more promising than capture-based tech ultimately.
The modeling is so accurate that it ends up replicating even the unintended side effects of amps, such as ghost notes (false notes being produced due to the power supply). The tech note explains it better than I can: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ghost-notes.126903/
HPsquared
From my experience with the piano one, the "tweaking the sound" aspect is where I've got the most out of it. Even just for awareness. But yeah, the physical modelling approach is probably better suited to something like piano with all its interacting resonances (and the way a tuner can change things around on a real piano).
tgv
Not the one you asked, but I have both Hauptwerk and Organteq, and the former beats the latter on everything expect cost, memory usage, start-up time. Organteq sounds artificial, and its reverb doesn't make it any better. Ok, you can tweak a lot, but the ensemble sound is unconvincing, and the registration choices are too limited.
isoprophlex
I know what a WAV file is, and I've even made some electronic music myself.
Yet my brain errored out and for a while I thought you made samples of pipe organs: little mini-organs to take home with you, to try out before you buy the big one.
"Hello! Can I interest you in trying one of our sample organs?"
wlonkly
You've reinvented the portative!
tptacek
What! For a living? Say more!
HPsquared
People do that with pianos and other instruments too. Some of these sample packs are very expensive. It is a small market though, I suppose.
pontusrehula
I'm interested in your choice to focus on French organs. Do you specifically aim to focus on French organs and not those of German type? Or is it more like a matter of convenience due to geography?
wglb
Let's hear more!
josephernest
You can hear many MP3 examples here: https://www.jeuxdorgues.com/jeux-d-orgues-4-lachaisedieu/
All are played with the virtual organ, what do you think?
I'll do a post soon with more stories about this project itself (that I started long ago)!
mock-possum
What?? That’s such a specific thing to do!
tgv
You can play it with your ASCII keyboard as well, as if it were a piano keyboard. It shows the German layout, but my Intl English keyboard works just as well.
Should you be so inclined: (short) k u (long) k (short) u y g f (long) d f.
DrSAR
very clever, thank you
smj-edison
This is super cool! I've advocated for spreading the organ to a modern audience through websites before, so it's great to see someone doing this.
In fact, I've been working off and on on my own virtual pipe organ software[1], except based around modular synthesis. I've found most modular synthesis engines don't have great support for blended midi and audio nodes, and often don't have good resources management, so I started from scratch.
coldcode
Long ago I sometimes played the organ. There is nothing more amazing than being alone in a large dark church, playing a pipe organ at full volume, feeling the vibrations. It's the original heavy metal. No other instrument can duplicate that feeling.
smj-edison
This is true—but that's something that's not very discoverable. I think getting to mess around with an organ online would pique someone's interest enough to seek out at in-person concert when they find that inevitably their speakers aren't good enough.
p0w3n3d
That's such a great project! But I'd love to see a proper VST with it, that allows voice mixing. The power of organs lays in the analog voice mixing (not simple on off, and not one voice exclusively)
satiric
https://www.hauptwerk.com/ is paid software but has a few Schnitger organs, although not the one shown off here.
tgv
There's also Sweelinq (https://sweelinq.com; subscription model), and Grand Orgue (free, but cumbersome; only a few worthwhile sample-sets), and there are some instruments for Kontakt.
temporal_123
I'll chime in with a related project: https://openpipes.org
null
Metacelsus
At first I thought it was about the biologist Arp Schnittger: https://scholar.google.ch/citations?user=tvLQFnwAAAAJ&hl=en
snickmy
Went to the demo, played some basic counterpoint, probably some poorly recalled lines from Bach, and I always get surprised how well the music of that time fits the instrument capabilities.
jll29
Beautiful sound - could anyone here point me to a method to upload such sounds onto standard keyboards (e.g. Yamaha PSR or Casio CT series), please? Thanks i.a.
Eduard
my keyboard apparently only allows to press three keys simultaneously. But when I switch browser tabs/windows while pressing a key, the keyup event apparently is not send to the previously focused window. For this virtual organ, this means it keeps playing the tone and therefore allowing to play more than three tones.
satiric
Sounds great, even from so limited a platform. One octave is enough to have some fun with, if you're creative. Would have been nice to be able to combine the stops, but the plenum at least gives you a solid sound. You can really hear the character of the organ.
Oh something in my niche ! I produce French pipe organ sample sets for a living : https://www.jeuxdorgues.com
It's an extroardinary journey to record an organ, process the thousands of WAV files and design a virtual organ model.