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Germany is unlocking billions to supercharge its military at a seismic moment

perlgeek

The article's headline says Germany is "supercharging its military", but for somebody who's been following the development of the German armed forces, it's more like "patching the most glaring, gaping holes".

240ccccc5205

A journalist would never misrepresent such a thing.

Germany must be having a spontaneously explosion of defense competence, just in the nick of time. We're going to see tangible results regardless of obsticles in the near future, I'll hold my breath for it.

red-iron-pine

Aye. It's been neglected for decades, and their procurement system is as bad (maybe worse) than Canada's.

Odd, though, that when the phrase "the Germans are rearming" pops up the French and British are notably calm.

exiguus

The key point is that Germany has finally loosened the debt brake, which has particularly strained the social system and infrastructure. In addition to the 1,000 billion euros allocated for social welfare and infrastructure, another 600 billion euros are designated for the military. The former is linked to the tense situation in social systems and the associated right-wing shift in Europe, while the latter is connected to the ongoing fascist counter-revolution in the USA.

Since the USA and companies based there are no longer reliable partners, Europe will stand alone in the future. This means that France and Germany are working together on a joint nuclear defense shield to ensure Europe's security and strengthen NATO's eastern borders.

raxxorraxor

That remains to be seen. Inflation will grow and the average worker will have to shoulder even more. Most of that money will be used to fill holes in collapsing social security systems anyway.

Problem for the military is that money doesn't buy soldiers anymore for the most part and very few like to pursue a military career.

exiguus

Actually, Germany has "Sondervermögen", they not printing the money, they just have in their bank accounts. So no inflation.

raxxorraxor

That is false, these costs are financed through debt.

r00fus

"loosened the debt brake" - does that mean they're ready to do some serious deficit spending?

exiguus

In german its called "Schuldenbremse" - that translate: "Dept break" and more better: Agree on no debts

kiviuq

> 1,000 billion euros allocated for social welfare

No, the money is definitely not meant for social programs, neither for affordable housing.

On the contrary, the debt brake was introduced to justify cutting social spending after the 2008 banking crash.

Social spending is still limited, debt financed military spending however is unlimited.

The money will go into fortifying bridges, roads for Truppentransporte, programs to protect civilians from disasters, emergencies, and armed conflicts. Military Keynesianism.

The political class is now debating ways to increase pressure on the population.. higher VAT, deregulate working hours, dropping public holidays, re-activate mandatory military service etc.

exiguus

It depends on how SPD vs. CDU. For now they say its infrastructure and social. Never the less, we should tax the rich and not talk about having a public holiday less.

AlecSchueler

> The political class is now debating ways to increase pressure on the population

Could you share links to those discussions?

on_the_train

> Unlocking

Going into debt for*

yubblegum

Who do these world powers borrow money from??? Forget who built the pyramids and other mysteries of history. I have go now and ask DeepSeek ..

alecco

The money system is owned by the Central Banking cartel (BIS club). The major holder of German debt is the ECB. This is not owned by states. It’s very enlightening to learn how it came to be.

Next big buyers of German debt are individual European banks (members of the cartel) and pension funds (also known in Wall Street as “Dumb money”).

yubblegum

So, why not instead of "annexing Canada", or "shutting down Social Security", or fighting endless wars that require that we borrow money from this "club", we invade B.I.S. and shake them down? The 'sanctity of the international finance system' you say? :)

https://www.cfr.org/blog/first-time-us-spending-more-debt-in...

As I said, it is a "mystery of history" ... /g

rsynnott

German debt is 62% GDP, and has been falling nicely; it can absolutely afford a bit of extra debt.

on_the_train

It's still just debt. Framing that as "unlocking" just because it's done by someone the press likes is wrong and abhorrent.

The words would have been different if the proposal came from the political opposition.

awongh

It's pretty crazy if you look at how much the US is/was spending on NATO in pure dollar amounts.

Since that's going to be cut back Germany and to a lesser degree France are the only countries left to take up the slack.

I don't have a really strong opinion either way in terms of what's happening in the US or in Europe, but the argument claiming that there's no real reason to spend money on the military seem pretty disingenuous re. Russia.

What's the real chances that Russia would do something like a land invasion of Europe? Really, really small.... But military spending is the thing helping keep those chances very small.

consumer451

Most strategic thinkers in both Western and Eastern circles saw the chances of a full invasion of Ukraine as "Really, really small..." on Feb. 23, 2022.

Imperialist Russia is in its final throws prior to becoming "a normal country," like the rest of Europe. From the European point of view, keeping those insane throws to a minimum is worth every penny, both in human and economic costs.

red-iron-pine

> Imperialist Russia is in its final throws prior to becoming "a normal country," like the rest of Europe. From the European point of view, keeping those insane throws to a minimum is worth every penny, both in human and economic costs.

That is about as likely as "they're not going to invade" -- the guys picking up the piece after Putin look to be as, maybe even more, hardline and aggressive.

There is a reason someone tried to assassinate Dugin.

consumer451

Reality dictates that Putin is not immortal. He will be replaced some time. Is now worse than later?

History shows that some of the worst actors in geopolitical history, Germany, Belgium, etc... can all become "normal countries" really quickly after they lose their final imperial war. Losing that last war was when the imperialist lunatics in their respective countries finally lost influence. It's very counterintuitive, but losing that last war is the key to long term success for most countries.

jupp0r

The point of deterrence is that you spend the money so the chance of Russia doing something like a land invasion of Europe is decreased.

The much more likely scenario that Europeans are wanting to prevent is a limited invasion in the Baltics or Balkans in order to politically divide and damage western democracies.

gilbetron

How much do you think the US is spending on NATO?

Remember, part of being in NATO is the requirement to spend a % of your GDP on your own military, which the US will do regardless.

TrapLord_Rhodo

Not a single NATO partner has consistently met the 2% GDP spend mandate historically outside the US. The US spends aorund 50-60B a year for our 40+ bases in europe. But this is offset by nato expenditures. For example, Germany gives us a $1B a year for our bases.

tim333

Googling "Ukraine" the first words on the results page are "Ukraine, Country in Europe".

I guess you are thinking of the more western bits of Europe or the bits that are in NATO but there isn't really a fundamental boundary.

That seems to be a bit of a flaw in the current 'peace negotiations' - Putin just wants a deal to carve up Ukraine agreed with the US and not involving Europe or the Ukranians but I'm not sure they are ok with that.

Schnitz

Everyone except the US is going to come out stronger on the other end of this mess. Too many Americans believe the world would be screwed without the US and the USD, they can’t imagine trading being done in RMB or EUR, yet it is already happening. As a German that has lived in the US for over 10 years I just watch and wonder. Moving back to Germany is a more enticing prospect than it has been for a long time. I know a lot of Europeans that have moved or are planning their move. I don’t mean they talk about plans, they are buying land, building houses, etc.

Aurornis

I don’t agree with the current direction, but I also think most people don’t understand how large the US defense budget is relative to other countries.

The US defense budget is around $850 billion.

Depending on the year you look at, the US defense budget is larger than around 7-9 of the next largest budgets from other countries combined.

If you add up all of the countries in the world, the global total is around $2.5 trillion. The United States makes up 1/3rd of that.

The US defense budget also hasn’t been a target for cuts, which is a topic of debate.

So while there’s a lot of headlines being made about other countries increasing their defense spending, the numbers are closer to a rounding error in the US defense budget than a massive global power shift. People scoff at the idea of the US being a global military powerhouse because they don’t like the idea, but the bottom line is that when you look at the numbers there really is a reason that the US military is so important, and it comes down to sheer size and spending.

tobias3

We only have to defend Germany/Europe + shipping routes with our military. Idk what the plan is with the US military. Occupy Canada and Panama?

ffsm8

If Trump's previous statements are taken at face value: Also Greenland - and later on Mexico, too

navane

If you're not using your defense assets to fight your enemies, but start siding with your enemies, your defence budget is a sink of which I wouldn't be proud that it is big.

exiguus

Europa spending on defense was around 280 Billion in 2023. IIRC this is the second highest after the US. But this is just changing now, without the US as a partner anymore.

fakedang

I previously cofounded a miltech startup in the US (as a foreigner), and have currently funded a European-based one (again as a foreigner). Nothing big, although we were able to exit the first one at a good-enough situation via an IP sale (which was practically forced upon us).

The US and European defence markets are very different. USA has a larger pie, but it's also very fragmented. More fragmented means more contractors and subs, which keep adding more layers of pricing into the contract. European defence is more consolidated - you have the few big players who get all the contracts, so there's very little room for new entrants to come in but that also means less layers to work with. This makes the final product less expensive compared to the American ones, at the cost of fewer specialized features added in by niche contractors. That's in part due to the nature of the militaries too - the American military will request frequent changes and new features to new battle conditions on the go, to the point of making your product the equivalent of military SAP - very flexible and usable for any battlefield situation, but also very bloated to develop and operate. On the other hand, European military contracts are usually relatively static in comparison, which means that the burden of knowledge acquisition and operating under different situations falls on the operator and not the technology itself. The last bit is also what translates into budgeting - American products are delivered with significant delays and higher costs due to back-and-forth bureaucracy internally, while European products can be delivered sooner if there is a pressure to deliver - like if the customer is a priority customer who has paid significantly upfront (read, Arab militaries).

I would argue that the US military sector is artificially inflated, because it's a significant jobs programme for the huge network of firms, contractors and subcontractors. In a way, it's a military budget that's adjusted for the economy size and not for the actual needs of the military. That lets the US military also fund a ton of whacky pioneering technology that's at the forefront of the innovation (like the internet, or drones, or even social media manipulation), but it also leaks a lot of money through the cracks for ostensibly results that are only marginally better than European countries with comparable militaries such as the UK and France.

That being said, it's much easier and more lucrative to start up in the US than anywhere else, at least till now. Second would be the UK, although with their exclusion from the recent European defence loans programme, that's questionable now. France is increasingly pulling its weight now, and I'm expecting a lot of growth here. The French government has been exceedingly friendly for miltech companies for a while now.

quadragenarian

I worked for an FFRDC on a DARPA project a bit more than a decade ago having to do with communication jammers. It was terribly managed. There were two projects going on at my organization that were basically the same thing but with two different PIs, teams, test beds, etc. We ended up wasting so much time and money doing non-R&D work with very little oversight from DARPA.

I honestly feel that US military money is thrown around like you said in such a fragmented way, that I can't imagine other countries NOT being an order of magnitude more efficient. It kind of reminds me of our healthcare spending and how much we spend but for such little ROI compared to other developed countries.

api

The US defense complex is large but it’s also inefficient and sclerotic, partly as a direct result of those fat budgets that have created a many decades old culture of graft and waste.

A country with less of this cost disease could probably be competitive with 1/4 the spend or less, especially if they skip big heavy Cold War era tech in favor of faster cheaper stuff like drones and smart munitions. Aircraft carriers and manned fighters look cool but I’m not sure how much they matter anymore.

What I see from the EU is that while they do also have cost disease, it might not be as entrenched in that sector. They also have Russia directly adjacent to them, which motivates people to actually care.

If Mexico were belligerent with a history of imperialism, had nuclear weapons and a huge army, and had just invaded and taken Cuba, we’d be in a similar situation and similarly motivated. As it stands we have a “big beautiful ocean” between us and Russia and do not face a direct threat. The US is almost uninvadeable unless you sterilized it with nukes first, and we have those too.

mike_hearn

[flagged]

Trasmatta

There's a lot more to this equation than defense spending.

Also it's not fair to compare the US to Germany. The US compared to the combined EU spending is more of a fair comparison.

Aurornis

> Also it's not fair to compare the US to Germany. The US compared to the combined EU spending is more of a fair comparison.

US spending is 1/3 of the entire global spending.

US spending is higher than the next ~9 countries’ budgets combined

I only included Germany because that’s what this article is about.

fasbiner

I have difficultly understanding this point of view, although I'm sure it is not uncommon.

Why do people believe it would it be an economically good decision to buy land and build houses in Germany, a place with negative GDP, no long term energy independence solution except for returning to coal, sharp curtailments on basic free speech, press, and assembly, and a massive military build-up which will require high levels of debt, cutting social spending, or both?

Is it more about a question of national feeling and patriotism and the details aren't as important as the national pride, or is there an underlying economic analysis? It's also possible that Germany will simply deindustrialize, financialize, do debt-based stimulus, and accelerate the pace of mass migration further, which would indeed be good for home prices for remote owners who continue to live abroad.

jltsiren

The big difference is if you are comparing the situation of a German citizen in Germany to a US citizen in the US or to a German citizen in the US. If you are an immigrant in a country where you don't have a subjective right to live, you obviously have fewer basic rights than a German citizen in Germany.

exiguus

Thats not true. There are another 1000 Billion going into social and infrastructure in germany right now. It's not like in the US, where you only can have military or social spending. Overall the military spendings was 280 Billion in 2023 in the EU. This is just increasing since the US is not a trustworthy partner anymore. FR and Germany just building up a stronger nuclear defence system for the EU and stronger borders to the east.

fabian2k

There are certainly some problems in Germany that need to be solved, but you're painting a very extreme and absolute picture here that is pretty far from the truth.

Free speech is different in Germany than the US, that doesn't mean we don't have free speech in Germany. The US doesn't have the one and only true definition of free speech. And right now Trump is assaulting free speech in the US, so those lectures from Vance and others are just blatant, partisan rethoric.

We're not returning to coal. The economy could be better, but it's not as terrible as you imply.

fasbiner

If you're not returning to coal, and you're anticipating further hostilities with Russia, then you're buying liquid natural gas from the US at much higher prices than are paid by both US and Chinese industry + domestic consumers.

Germany returning to coal would be a bitter pill to swallow, but insisting that Germany will remain competitive despite much higher energy costs which only get worse with scale by saying "it's not that bad" is not convincing.

Free speech, free press, and free assembly is under another round of attacks many places, including Germany, The United States, Russia, Israel, and Turkey, among others. Some are relatively better than others and some had very little left to fall, but all are in absolute decline.

As I'm in favor of free speech as a universal value and not an apologist for anyone's domestic authoritarianism, I don't consider the hypocrisy of the speaker to be a good justification to sweep aside mutually unflattering facts about state policy.

watwut

Germany is more democratic and freer then USA. Except maybe for nazi where in fact, sigh Heil is not allowed in Germany and admired in USA.

But, that is bad news for freedom if everybody else, so.

Germany seems like a better country to live in for most people. Plus, affordable Healthcare system and public education system.

fasbiner

https://www.thefire.org/news/blogs/free-speech-dispatch/germ...

Are you saying FIRE is teutonphobic and the report is false, that those were all irish nazis engaging in terrorist plots, or that immigrants should have fewer rights to speech than citizens?

tim333

And maybe Russia. They are not very popular just now. The US will probably be ok if a bit troubled by their current economic policies.

lolinder

The funny thing is that if you listen to Trump and the MAGA folks, they explicitly do not believe that the world would be screwed without the US and USD, and further do not believe that the US should care if they were. Trump's whole schtick with NATO is that Europe should be defending itself, not relying on the US.

So while the left and center of the US largely views this whole saga as a catastrophic loss of the US brand and foreign policy aims, this kind of rearmament is exactly what Trump promised his base he'd make happen.

surgical_fire

That sounds true to me, at least related to the MAGA-adjacent people I know from the US.

The thing is that I never expected the US to just willingly throw away what I (and many others) perceived to be its actual greatest source of strength. The US had built, along with its impressive military, an equally impressive web of friendly nations that allowed it to project its power to a degree that was impossible to match. Even in a world where China kept rising, they would have trouble to compete with the US in this field, because the window of opportunity to build this was like 70 years ago.

China was trying for the next best thing, wooing countries in Africa and Latin America to slowly build a web of friendly nations of its own. Not the same, if you ask me.

That the US would freely squander all their multi-decades investments in a matter of months was unthinkable.

I personally enjoy what is happening. As someone that lives in an EU country, I thought the EU needed this kind of nudge to further integrate, and the US influence always irked me. I am cautiously optimistic for the next few years here.

AlecSchueler

We understand the schtick, it just seems like a grave miscalculation of the return on investment for the US.

dijit

This is largely what I believe to be true also.

"We have a lot of leverage, and even if we don't, then we don't have to pay to be the worlds police" - is largely how I (also a european) have seen Trumps actions.

The "issue", is that this is a populist take.

It's weirdly not in Americas interest to take that stance, because they are a defacto world government with the amount of soft power they are able to exert, militarily and in trade.

So, the GP is quite right, people are waking up to the idea that this soft power was running kinda deep and we shouldn't just allow ourselves to get soft too.

Just like an insurance company will find a way not to pay: the US may never have actually come to the aid of Europe; and nobody thought about that, they just accepted most of what the US was asking in the hope that they would.

The lesson will be painful in the short-term, but I'm also hopeful that we take it seriously and start investing in ourselves.

dkjaudyeqooe

> So while the left and center of the US largely views this whole saga as a catastrophic loss of the US brand and foreign policy aims, this kind of rearmament is exactly what Trump promised his base he'd make happen.

It's a catastrophic loss of influence. It's a good thing for Europe but terrible for the US. I think that Trump will end up fulfilling his promise is co-incidental. Trump's a lose cannon who's alienated all of America's friends, that he achieved some relatively minor goal is like being proud of losing weight because you have cancer.

Europe has a chance here to become a political superpower, strongly eroding the US centric world view and having influence though something other than brute force of money or military power, which is what China and US are trying to project.

giardini

Saved monies can be used to reduce taxes, to rearm or rebuild.

Also, military spending can be reduced by reducing military costs in the USA. Wait until DOGE gets it's scalpel on the Pentagon's budget: likely much can be saved there.

Remember Eisenhower's warning about the "military-industrial complex"

https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZLBR&pc=MOZI&q=military+i...

The defense industry has run rampant since long before Eisenhower's presidency. Trump is likely to make some serious cuts in the defense budget, deeper than we've seen in decades.

TrapLord_Rhodo

One promise i would love to see him keep is turning the liabilities in europe into an asset. Instead of paying for european security, if we can charge them for security and sell them weapons and tech from our big contractors, the US wins.

lolinder

Yeah, that's not happening. Summarily burning down bridges is a great way to stop people from mooching off you, but that's because they now know they can't rely on you to be a stable foundation.

If they can't trust us not to break our previous promises, why in the world would they trust us with their national security-critical business?

jemmyw

That's the position the US was already in. The US was at peak "selling expensive weapons to Europe".

surgical_fire

EU will not rely on a foreign hostile nation for its defense. Part of the 800B package is that the contractors have to be European.

bdangubic

this could have happened if he tried to get this worked out behind closed doors. doing this shit he’s doing it would be a political suicide for any country to go along with it. if our former allies are no longer such, they won’t come to US to pay for shit - they will go elsewhere

tom89999

But i think the states should take responsibility of the casualties of the wars they started. The people seeking shelter here wouldnt knock on our door if foreign people funding their rebel groups or religious extremists. Ever wonder why they got so many weapons and ammo? Russia and china was also interfering there so they grab the assets. We provided airbases and barracks for the us-army, time to cash in the rent for so many years. We dont have to take the risk getting our cities bombed because our lords and saviours found it funny to start a war in a foreign country... I would suggest Trump should seek another country housing his war gear...

hnkland

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quantum_state

The world needs a united and strong Europe for stability and many other advances …

fasbiner

Have european arms races against a real or perceived russian threat historically led to stability in europe?

surgical_fire

The threat is not only from Russia.

Also, if you are referring to Hitler's and Napoleon's failed campaigns on Russia, it's important to mention that those were fighting wars of aggression on multiple fronts against their European neighbors. It was not a united EU propping up defenses against real threats.

gotoeleven

What I hear from europeans is that it sucks to be there if you're ambitious.

https://x.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1893374276327137367

awongh

When I read this, as an American it really strikes me what a trade-off the implementation of social democracy is. It does seem like they are correlated.

I wish that the USA did better on taking care of people, (because it sucks right now) but some on the left act as if there are no consequences to deciding to implement these things.

dachworker

I don't think there is any connection between lack of VC capital and whatever "social democracy" you have in mind. I think it is actually just culture. Europeans are risk averse, pessimistic and cynical. And society is still more elitist than in the new world. Because of these reasons a startup culture cannot flourish.

Aurornis

> When I read this, as an American it really strikes me what a trade-off the implementation of social democracy is. It does seem like they are correlated.

In my experience working with some former European entrepreneurs, the startup problem isn’t really directly related to anything about social democracy or safety nets or even taxes.

They talked about how difficult, painful, and risky it was for them to start and operate a company at every turn. Even things like bankruptcy and allowing founders to move on with their lives if their startup fails, which we take for granted here, are not a given in European countries.

It’s not just the government to blame. The private banking and even societal norms are very different in ways that we don’t even consider in the United States.

The US is very friendly to funding and building startups. I didn’t appreciate it until talking to ex-founders from various European countries as well as many founders here who explicitly left EU countries for America because they wanted to start a company.

Herring

Yes the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time, we created a lot of value for shareholders.

null

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squigz

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shaftoe

We can agree to disagree without name-calling, but the impact of compounding growth vs intentional stagnation is going to continue to widen the gap that's already opened up over a few generations.

LargoLasskhyfv

Funny. For me it's the other way around. I'm just laughing out loud at all the craziness. Maybe it depends on where you're living, on your citizenship status, wealth, whatever.

AlecSchueler

The term you're looking for is privelege.

LargoLasskhyfv

I haven't checked...

honkycat

Keep in mind: republicans are low information voters, and additionally they tend to be single issue voters.

So 99% of them probably don't care about this particular thing. They care about abortion, or "corruption", or welfare queens, or something else.

They have no idea the entire point of this exercise is to gut our public infrastructure so they can give hand-outs to their cronies companies to do the exact same job, but more expensive.

null

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rdtsc

> Presumptive Chancellor Friedrich Merz has decided that now is the moment for Germany to invest in its military, on levels not seen since the Cold War

Now? After spending billions funding Putin’s war with gas money. Especially after watching him annex Crimea in 2014, or taking Ukraine’s NATO’s membership off the table after Bucharest summit.

Now they finally see how dangerous he is! Better later than never I guess…

In perverse way they are also doing Trump’s bidding who chastised them for not investing enough in defense.

redserk

I don't understand the angle of remarks like this. Russia invaded Ukraine, Germany pulled back money going to Russia, and Germany is now investing where it's appropriate.

Are we expecting them to re-litigate this problem until the end of time instead of addressing the problem?

rdtsc

They should have strengthened their military and supported Ukraine joining NATO instead of opposing it publicly at the Bucharest Summit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bucharest_summit

> The Alliance did not offer a Membership Action Plan to Georgia or Ukraine, largely due to the opposition of Germany

US govt warned Merkel to wind down purchasing gas and oil from Putin:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/trump-scolded-germany-for...

Currently as it stands for all great chest thumping for "supporting Ukraine" EU as a whole is spending more money funding the war by buying gas and oil from the Russian than helping Ukraine. But somehow in the media domain, they managed to position themselves as great friends and supporters of Ukraine. It's quite baffling.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/01/03/europe-russia-ukraine-w...

(https://archive.is/1ULVQ)

rdsubhas

This, and they actually invested heavily into building Nord Stream 2 from 2011 onwards. Nord Stream 2 never delivered any gas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2

gls2ro

The world politics specifically US+Germany+Russia is at least one level more complex than describing it as a transaction between these 3 countries.

I dont pretend to understand it but I also dont think you should minimize it to just one or two transactions.

Nobody can predict the future when thinking about international politics. We cannot apply human level rules to interaction between countries.

carlio

Do you suggest not doing it then?

rdtsc

I suggesting doing it faster and acknowledging it was a mistake not doing it sooner.

stogot

It’s a different leader. Those are unfair attacks

hnkland

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poisonborz

Everyone optimistic about this, but looking at the past decade, I don't think we have much to look for.

This is Germany/Bundeswehr we're talking about. They already decided on 100 billion after the Russian attack in 2022, a plan that didn't really pan out. The Bundeswehr is famous for its overspending, backwards/lazy ethics, rampant right-wing/neonazi ties. German, and let's be honest, EU government is - even now - in "play it safe" mode, not even big on words, even less on actions. They fumbled virtually every crisis since the 2000s. They let Orban/Putin puppets run rampant and veto most of the botched little help they provided, and still think he can be reasoned with after 15 years. They thought the same of Russia right up the second until a full scale invasion of Ukraine, 8 years after it started to attack it.

Europe is just hopelessly fractured, with no identity, hazy goals and an increasingly degrading economical power. I wish it weren't so, but we didn't manage to unite the forces of these 27 nations beyond some superficial economical agreements.

c0l0

Even if WWIII is not a consequence of all this senseless and reckless militarization, each and every penny spent on it will end up missing dearly for fighting human civilization's real fight of this century: combatting climate change. It's even worse, since this kind of spending will make it even worse.

I'm afraid humanity is blowing it for good with this.

dragonwriter

The militarization is a response to the fact that a world war is already underway, and a key ally of those accelerating militarization is either bowing out or actually switching sides.

A world war will not be the result of the militarization, just like it wasn't a result of the militarization Britain undertook after the 1938 Munich crisis.

krona

> bowing out or actually switching sides.

Isn't the opposite actually the case? Hegseth has called it a "division of labor." [0]

Ultimately when war breaks out with China, and a year in to that conflagration Russia (ever the opportunist) decides to take a few bites out of the Baltic states, who's going to defend Europe? The US military isn't omnipotent.

[0] https://www.defense.gov/News/Speeches/Speech/Article/%204064...

dragonwriter

> Isn't the opposite actually the case?

The opposite? You mean, the United States is increasing its integration with and support for its allies in the global conflict against the aggression of the Russian-centered alignment?

No, that's 100% not what is happening.

> Hegseth has called it a "division of labor."

Probably a lot more useful to look at concrete policy actions than Hegseth’s vague, content-free characterizations.

And it concrete reality, the US is cutting support for those who have been on the same side as it has, in some cases threatening them with violence and annexation, and provide aid and comfort to the aggressor that is the opponent that it had been working with others to defend against.

jupp0r

You're being overly dramatic. Germany has been spending low amounts of money on its military for two and a half decades. Circumstances changed and spending needs to be increased to adjust to the new situation. This is not militarization, it's the state fulfilling fundamental purpose of providing external security for its citizens. Spending is going to be less (relative to GDP) than in the 70s and 80s.

okr

The agenda after WW2 was to not allow germany to militarize itself again and to keep the soviets out. Now it seems that germany is allowed to take it's safety in it's own hands again. Maybe there is more trust (western values?), maybe americans want to pull out? I still find it an astounding development. Maybe because it is an european project. Becoming adult. And the US has a bigger fish to fry.

cjblomqvist

I believe it's fine now because there's been another, better, solution that doesn't rely on spending so many $$$ on it; the EU. USA is probably not at all as worried about Germany as a country going crazy again.

Ironically, Hitler wanted to establish a third Reich - basically a new Roman empire that spanned all of... Europe. Funny how these things goes. Old wine in new bottles.

watwut

There is definitely more trust toward Germany then toward USA or Russia now. Wither way, even if there was less trust, it does nit matter. Russia is very active threat and America is hostile toward Europe, threatens annexation of part of it ... while being friendly to Russia and other authoritarian regimes.

So, it is nor like there would be another choice.

German is at least teaching about own atrocities as about atrocities. Other countries have massively bigger problem to admit their past might have been ugly.

ossobuco

I don’t have the exact numbers, but for every billion not invested in healthcare, infrastructure, or clean energy, countless people will end up suffering or dying unnecessarily.

Take this study[0] as an example: austerity measures in Greece led to 10,000 avoidable infant deaths. Plenty of other studies show similar results, cutting social spending costs lives.

So how many deaths will come from shifting €800 billion from social programs to military budgets?

It’s a sure thing that this will cause suffering and death, while the idea that we need all that money for defense is just speculation, especially when the EU’s combined military budget is already far bigger than Russia’s.

- [0]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2407.17084

jaapz

The difference in Germany is that they made a historic change to their consitution where they are now able to grow their military by borrowing way more money. They are not moving money away from healthcare and infrastructure, they are actually creating a way to increase their military budget without having to move money away from healthcare and infrastructure (because in Germany, the money is sorely needed there as well).

ossobuco

Basically making more debt that the future generations will have to pay? The end result will be the same. These are just financial tricks, money can be created out of thin air but not resources, energy, etc.

surgical_fire

> EU’s combined military budget is already far bigger than Russia’s.

But it is much smaller than the US' military spending, who is at this point a hostile foreign nation.

ossobuco

I would even agree on this, but I wonder why do I never hear anyone requesting for the EU leadership to be held accountable for pursuing a policy of blind dependence on the US? We've cut ties with anyone the US disliked, only to be left alone all of a sudden, why aren't we looking for those responsible for this? I can tell you, many of them are currently in a position of power within the EU.

Right now we have top diplomats like Kallas saying publicly that we need to find a way to beat China, all while we already have problems with Russia and the USA. They are putting us in a corner against the rest of the world, and for what? Who has to benefit from this?

netsharc

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hansvm

The plot twist of the century would be if climate change is the driving force behind our bluster about annexing Canada and Greenland. He can't admit it publicly without alienating his base, so he's forced to come up with increasingly ludicrous ruses to justify his attempts to save America from its real threats.

dudefeliciano

In a way it is his very openly stated goal. He has mentioned that it's a national security issue, since Russian and Chinese ships are passing through the arctic route, and as the ice melts greenland and canada will become increasingly important.

AlecSchueler

As the ice melts most of the issues we're talking about will become distant memories.

jsbisviewtiful

Researchers and analysts tend to agree humanity already blew it. We waited way too long to start mitigation practices and what little we’ve done has already started to be rolled back. Even if we restarted efforts it would take too long to ramp up given the snowball effect already in play. We are cooked.

alwa

So… maybe, but to my mind counterfactuals don’t really help clarify thinking about this kind of thing. The range of futures available to us today doesn’t really depend too much on alternate futures that may have been available had we done things differently in the past.

I understand the political necessity of setting a concrete 1.5 degC warming target and messaging it as an all-or-nothing kind of goal, but “we missed it” isn’t an absolute. It’s not the line between “hellfire and brimstone” and “salvation”: there’s still a range of outcomes and behavior still matters.

The fatalism strikes me as counterproductive and paralyzing: people can and will continue to try to survive, even if there are wildfires now, or hurricanes, or heat waves, or worse. Better, it seems to me, to focus on what actually is changing, how people are responding, and how to mitigate and adapt.

jsbisviewtiful

It's okay to have a differing opinion, but ultimately the oceans are warming much faster than simulations created by experts predicted. The runaway greenhouse effect has always been front and center of the "oh no" part of humanity warming the planet and so far it appears "runaway warming" describes the state of the ocean - which is very not good.

jupp0r

This ironically applies both to climate change and being a decade too late to react to Russia's expansionist actions.

riedel

The reason to lift the debt limit is actually, so at current times it becomes not an either or option.

Unfortunately, Russia seems a very real threat to many European countries (particularly those with Russian minority population). Germany needs this this money e.g. to actually setup a NATO brigade in Lithuania.

While all this military spending indeed is lost money, it seems that cost would need to be split and this is not even consensus inside the EU.

Germany has already become the target as its physical and digital infrastructure is under constant attack while feeling unable to defend ourselves. This is not about WWIII, but actually to prevent it happening.

tmoravec

If Germany is conquered by Russia, there's exactly nothing done to combat climate change. Warding them off gives at least a chance to work on that and some progress.

jajko

Its much worse, just look at the map. Global warming would be massively beneficial to russia - north sea would be better used by navy (whatever remains out of it) and shipping lanes, permafrost disappearing makes much more land usable. They have massive oil and gas reserves that they need to sell, half of their economy runs off this.

AlecSchueler

And if we collapse the jet stream they will be living deep under ice. Global warming != Everywhere gets sunny

LargoLasskhyfv

Molten permafrost is unlikely to be arable soil 'just so'. Tends to be rather acidic, and teems with nasty insects. Who knows what else it thawing up, too.

Yay for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis !

navane

If Europe gets conquered by russia and we too go back to drawing donkey carts with cowshit, we might actually slow down climate change.

AlecSchueler

There's a latent conspiracy theorist deep inside me that says they've figured out the only way to stop the warming is the complete collapse of all post-conflict industrial society and start building again.

j1elo

Europe has been benefiting from being friends with the US, which allowed not spending so much money in its own defense capabilities. Money that could then be destined to welfare. Now that US threatens to cut such good terms in their relationship, EU finds itself with decades of accumulated underinvestment, and the need to get up to speed in that front for yesterday.

We're still not behaving collectively as much hogher than idiotic monkeys fighting in a cage. Defense from our neighbors is still a primary concern. We'll all die burnt with a heat wave.

JumpCrisscross

Europe was also principally buying American weapons. That’s now changing.

michh

The “benefitting from being friends with the US” is exactly the frame Trump would love for you to use. It’s a little more nuanced than that imo.

After WW2 the US wanted the European powers under its wings rather than rebuilding their own militaries to the level of a global power. There were to be two powers: the US and the Soviets.

It suited the US interests to force Europe in a dependent position. Partly for good reasons like preventing us fighting amongst ourselves starting another war. Which we’d just done twice, so fair enough.

But also to stop us from coming under communist influence voluntarily. And, just for imperialist reasons. They were just more modern and subtle about it than the empires they replaced, most notably the British Empire. The almost-century of western Europe being effectively part of an US empire culturally, financially and militarily is now coming to an end. How we’re gonna deal with that? No idea. It’s going to be pretty damn hard in a lot of ways.

mistrial9

anti-war social movements are alive and well, despite this headline. Who is investing whose money, and who gets advantages in doing so? There is no "we" in the war machinery. Extra bonus points for putting ambitious women in front of the camera to ride the herds.

2-3-7-43-1807

The caveat is that there's almost nobody in Germany who'd be physically fit and or motivated to actually fight a war. Germany was systematically drained off anything even remotely resembling patriotism. This was politically and legally enforced by borderline criminalizing terms like Heimat (home / homeland), forget about displaying its flag without raising eyebrows. Its cultural DNA is diluted to an extent that I'd be hesitant to even call it a country - it's basically just an area with lots of people living on it. There's no coherent society anymore. The war machines will all be sold to other countries. Rich people will get richer and the plebs will be brought to heel with orchestrated fear. It's a funny irony that the warmongers in German politics are the same people who'd have taken any opportunity to express their contempt for anything military up until only a few years ago.

hmmmcurious1

I wonder why americans trashed their own hegemony in record time. Was it just to own the libs or are they lashing out because the elites know something we dont

everfrustrated

Have a read of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_non-intervention...

US non-interventionism was the norm for the longest time. Hence US entering WWII late - the US had no interest in helping their European cousins for a long time.

Perhaps this is just the US going back to its natural state.

rstuart4133

> US non-interventionism was the norm for the longest time.

US practised non-interventionism when wasn't the dominant world power. It's existed for 229 years, only in the 75 years after 2 world wars dethroned Britain did it become dominant. Since then its pretty much continuously projected it's power using miliary means across the world.

Look around, and you'll notice most countries are non-interventionist. That includes countries that were once attempted to colonise the world - like Britain, France and Spain. I guess once it was clear they could not take on the USA single handedly, they stopped spending on their military. Looked at as an asset that generates a return, what use is it if you have to ask the USA for permission to use it?

The corollary is if the USA loses it's "dominant military power status" military spending will probably drop back to the levels of other countries. It's held the position for 75 years, but if current trends continue it won't make 80 years.

I guess the obvious candidate for taking on the role of "dominate power" is China. Given they way they've been building up their military, it's almost like they are preparing for it. Their major competitor for the position will be India.

permo-w

I really don't think it's that complicated. this is just Trump's personal philosophy. he's been saying it for decades. he doesn't think the US should be so involved around the world, and he doesn't think the world should be so involved in the US

as a European, I’m cautious optimistic about this, especially given headlines like these. Europe should be able to stand on its own

hmmmcurious1

Surely he understands the interplay between the usd being the world reserve currency and the importance of allies and military bases set across the world and how this aids US prosperity

TrapLord_Rhodo

serious question... How does that not help? The USD is a stable currency because we have f35's and the most powerful military in the world. How does Germany spending over the next 10 years, what we spend a year change that? Our ally is stronger because trump has been pressuring europe to invest more in military, why does that not increase our military capability now that our allies are a bit stronger?

dboreham

Serious question?? Of course he doesn't.

watwut

Threatening annexations is getting involved. Starting trade wars is getting involved.

He is involved a lot ... just more on the fascist side then on the Democratic side.

permo-w

this is wilful misunderstanding. the result of those "involved" actions is to be less involved, less close, less interlinked

dboreham

Because those people around the world are smarter than him and look down on him. He's plenty interested in being involved with places that flatter and pay him money.

yodsanklai

Did they though? Are Trump's speeches followed by any action? US has numerous bases across the world, notably surrounding Russia and China. Any sign they're going to close them? Besides, Europe doesn't have much geopolitical significance nowadays. I'm more curious about US stance on China.

hmmmcurious1

Losing the EU as an ally against China is disastrous for US chinese containment policy. Trump wont be able to bribe Putin either if China starts a war.

jajko

Yeah the idea that russia would somehow join US if China would start war is laughable, they are US sworn enemy since stalin era since all US stands/stood for is a direct threat to their oligarchy. There were 0 days when this wasn't true since WWII ended. Even assumption they would just stand by during any conflict won't fly, they would at least try to take Alaska or similar action.

They are much more friendly with China on all levels compared to US and its deepening since his first term.

But now US can be sure as hell Europe won't give a flying fuck if such conflict would happen. We were fractured and weak but as all psychologists know a common enemy can solidify a society like nothing else. A recent stab in the back can be interpreted that way. And we're half a billion and rich market which once dominated all known world.

It just shows that in order to be a good respected politician adding value to one's own country, one need to be way more than some nepo kid with daddy issues, reality show host, hyper arrogant narcissistic investor who made hundreds of millions of his father into billions (while crashing handful of casinos).

dboreham

It was one mentally ill person who trashed it. Better question is why did nobody stop him? Review of Germany in the 1930s provides some answers..

api

It’s deeper than Trumpism and there is significant support for divesting from the US empire on the left too. If Sanders had gotten in we would have gone about it very differently but still may have done some of the same things. If the Sanders/AOC wing of the party wants universal health care, that is going to come out of the defense budget. Taxing the rich won’t be enough.

The post-9/11 forever wars were really disasters. We spent trillions in Iraq and Afghanistan to end up with ISIS rising in Iraq and the Taliban back in charge in Afghanistan. It’s really soured the US on interventionism.

Ukraine is viewed differently by many but that’s kind of an exception, and support for actually committing significant US troops there would be soft.

piokoch

What is "record time"? Trump does not have anything to do with diminished USA hegemony. The problem started when USA let China to join WTO, which result in offshoring production to China and rapid China growth (also military, which was happening below radar of western observers).

At the same time USA stopped investing in its military (as compared to Cold War times) and, what is equally important, its European allies did the same (with exception of Greece and to some extent France). As a result whole Euro-Atlantic alliance become weaker and heavily dependent on China.

This was a long, slow process, stared in the '2000.

Trump tries to revert this trend, but makes unnecessary mistakes, most notably, he is hurting USA soft power and is conflicting USA with its European allies, which gives an impression that "something" happened suddenly now.

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