Ask HN: Would you fund Mozilla to become independent of Google?
90 comments
·March 12, 2025DiabloD3
The only way I would donate to Mozilla is if the corporation is shuttered and the non-profit is disentangled from it.
Any donations you send to Mozilla today go to the corporation and are not spent on the browser. They are spent on things that have nothing to do with the core mission of the maintaining the browser.
Nobody is allowed to fund Mozilla to maintain the browser, which is the actual question you're asking.
Yoric
I think you're getting it mixed.
The corporation funds almost exclusively the browser.
The non-profit doesn't fund the browser.
nailer
This and I would pay between 10 and 20 USD a year for it.
Much like Wikipedia, my donations depend on being able to donate to the actual engineers, and not to unrelated political advocacy.
SAI_Peregrinus
> Much like Wikipedia, my donations depend on being able to donate to the actual engineers, and not to unrelated political advocacy.
Yep. I even agree with most of the unrelated political advocacy, but I want to be able to donate for that to a different organization.
sofixa
Mozilla are doing other things that a browser, yes. And this is good. Browsers are special and don't make money by themselves, and Firefox in particular is entirely dependent on Google's money. Having alternative projects that can bring revenue (e.g. Pocket) helps them remove that singular dependency and ensure they can survive long term.
And having a specific "donate to Firefox only" would probably end in disaster. They might end up in a situation where they're forced to waste money on Firefox because that's what the donations are for while not having enough money to keep the lights on in offices. For a fun example of what happens when you have fixed budgets that don't have any flexibility, Atlanta's MARTA was founded with an agreement providing public funding, with a fixed 50/50 split between capex and opex. So they found themselves with brand new trains because there's capex budget to spend, but falling apart infrastructure because 50% wasn't enough for opex.
iteratethis
You state that the non-Firefox activities of Mozilla are good, as if an established fact.
I'd reason that there's no consensus on this at all. Some things might be perceived as good, some neutral or bad, and many might be perceived as well intended but ineffective.
sofixa
> You state that the non-Firefox activities of Mozilla are good, as if an established fact.
No, I'm stating that it's good that Mozilla has non-Firefox activities and is trying to diversify. I've only used Pocket from them and it's good, but don't have an opinion on any of their other activities.
DiabloD3
But you just described what Mozilla is doing right now! 0% of what anyone donates goes to the browser, and its a disaster!
sofixa
Why do you think it's 0%? I doubt it, it's not like the money goes into separate buckets and engineering salaries for Firefox only come from the Google bucket, and donations get spent on lobster and champagne parties for the C-levels.
srvmshr
A user like me would be willing to idea of some monthly donation when Mozilla restructures its expenses.
If memory serves right, the biggest slice of expenses were in C-level compensations & shortlived pet projects. The organization has to focus on growing a cadre of good engineers and product teams for their core offerings (just like the ones who rewrote large chunks of Netscape code into a fledgling Firefox ~22y ago).
One can't be expected to donate just to eventually subsidize a penthouse purchase for the CEO or their swanky McLaren.
ryandrake
You can look at their most recent annual report[1].
Their total expenses were ~$40M, and their CEO made over $6M in compensation. So out of a $100 donation, $16 goes directly into the CEO's pocket.
The total compensation for their top 10 employees is close to $10M. They all are President of this and VP of that and Director of thus--my strong guess is none of them write Firefox code. So $24 of your $100 go into their pockets.
1: https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2024/b200-mozilla-fo...
sshine
I’ve tolerated them being in the gray zone for years with their neglect of Firefox. After their latest stunt they’re out for me. I would not donate to an org that openly neglects a social responsibility of this magnitude.
butz
Mozilla must split their engine and basic browser UI into separate browser, something like Chromium right now, without any "Mozilla" features: no pocket, no AI, no sync, nothing extra that is not necessary to browse the web. This part must forever stay open-source, free, and supported. Only then I'll gladly set up recurring donation. On top of that, they can build a "Mozilla" spin of the browser, with all the bells and whistles they ever wanted: ads, AI, sync, pocket, Mr. Robot promos, etc. This also opens avenue for other companies to build on top of base browser their own improvements, either by using extensions or extension bundles. Even Microsoft might provide their own spin with all Microsoft services and telemetry added.
pickledoyster
I would chip in the average Facebook user value for my country if, and only if, Mozilla completely reversed course on ad tech, selling user data, and 'private tracking'. The fact that it acquired Anonym (with its close ties to Facebook) makes it clear that Mozilla would not diversify away from ads, it would just jump from one ad company (Google) to the other (FB).
I would not give a penny to a company that looks to sell me out.
47282847
I would like to fund a technical Mozilla that exclusively focuses on actual products and community building. I would not want to give my money to the current Mozilla, as I believe the money and endowment they already have would be sufficient or at least give them all the means to do it, if they consequently stripped away everything else.
iteratethis
Many people want to donate to Firefox exclusively but you can forget about that. Mozilla will not carve out Firefox because it's the only reason that the mother org gets half a billion of free money from Google.
Carving out Firefox means Mozilla is dissolved as none of their other activities make any money.
ryandrake
Why can't Mozilla just be Firefox? I would donate to a group of open source developers, but I would not donate to a huge org chart tree of CxO's and VP's and non-technical administrators and administrators-of-administrators and assistants-to-administrators-of-administrators.
iteratethis
Well, I just explained you why. Firefox subsidizes the mothership which is doing a lot of non-Firefox activities. When you carve out Firefox, the mothership is gone.
ryandrake
What I'm asking is why can't Mozilla just drop all the non-Firefox side quests?
hysan
I would fund Firefox, not Mozilla. I learned from all the recent discussions that money donated to Mozilla do not go to Firefox. It’s as if Mozilla is structured in a way such that Firefox cannot be community supported.
sshine
Mozilla treats Firefox like an unloved adoptive child kept around for the monetary benefit.
SCdF
If mozilla spun off firefox or otherwise reorganised their company to be about making firefox the best web browser possible, so I could trust that my money was going to development of the browser and not random nonsense, I would happily pay £5-10/month.
crossroadsguy
Yes; depending upon what governance and financial/business model they choose. Maybe Firefox to begin with. And of course minus the CXO and their entourage. I think it should go the Thunderbird way or something on those lines.
Survival of Firefox is critical (as of now more than Mozilla) for the open web to remain open.
joanfihu
Should it need to become independent, OR is it going to be forced to become independent?
It seems Google won’t be able to pay to be the default SE in any browser: Safari, Mozilla, etc.
https://askpandi.com/pandipedia/judgement-against-google-pro...
So I guess Mozilla is scrambling to find new revenue streams since 88% of their revenue comes from it.
I won’t fund Mozilla because it’s been forced to operate fairly.
They should build a product that makes me want to pay for it.
jordemort
I would fund one of the Firefox forks to become independent of Mozilla.
giamma
As a Firefox user who is worried about he current browser landscape, I already donated to Mozilla in the past.
However as many others pointed out, there is no way to ensure that the donated amount is used specifically to fund Firefox.
How much would you and or your company be willing to fund Mozilla should it need to become independent of Google?