The Insecurity of Telecom Stacks in the Wake of Salt Typhoon
76 comments
·March 12, 20250xbadc0de5
matthewdgreen
A few years back the U.K. tried a political experiment in which it purchased Huawei equipment and also set up a special government/Huawei lab where they could analyze the source code to ensure it was safe to use. GCHQ found that the code quality made it unreviewable, and that they could not even ensure that the source code provided actually ran on the equipment (because Huawei had direct update capability.) I believe that equipment has been banned since 2020. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/brita...
0xbadc0de5
Correct. Both the US and Canada also did similar investigations and came to similar conclusions.
Scoundreller
That kind of analysis needs a control.
But I guess it’s like you said: a political experiment.
Etheryte
Does it really need a control when many countries across the globe have independently tried it out and reached the same conclusion? I would say the results are pretty clear.
FreebasingLLMs
I've been personally involved in evaluating the security of a certain vendor starting with the letter H. Let us just say they are "less than honest". I had pcaps of their bullshit trying to reach out to random C2 shit on the internet, which garnered a response of "there must be a mistake, that is not our software".
Let China sell their telecom bullshit to all the poor people of the world - they will learn hard lessons.
miki123211
One thing I absolutely don't understand about telecom security is how, in 2025, we're still using pre-shared keys in our mobile phone standards.
RSA and Diffie Hellman[1] have existed for decades, so have CA systems, yet SIM cards are still provisioned with a pre-shared key that only the card and the operator knows, and all further authentication and encryption is based on that key[2]. If the operator is ever hacked and the keys are stolen, there's nothing you can do.
To make things even worse, those keys have to be sent to the operator by the SIM card manufacturer (often a company based in a different country and hence subject to demands of foreign governments), so there are certainly opportunities to hack these companies and/or steal the keys in transit.
To me, this absolutely feels like a NOBUS vulnerability, if the SIM manufacturers and/or core network equipment vendors are in cahoots with the NSA and let the NSA take those keys, they can potentially listen in on all mobile phone traffic in the world.
[1] I'm aware that those algorithms are not considered best practices any more and that elliptic curves would be a better idea, but better RSA than what we have now.
[2] https://nickvsnetworking.com/hss-usim-authentication-in-lte-...
johnwayne666
Gemalto was hacked 15 years ago:
> "AMERICAN AND BRITISH spies hacked into the internal computer network of the largest manufacturer of SIM cards in the world, stealing encryption keys used to protect the privacy of cellphone communications across the globe, according to top-secret documents provided to The Intercept by National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden."
rightbyte
I have talked to telephone engineers and they said they could read all passing SMSs verbatim when they hooked up to a cell tower to debug stuff.
Dunno if that is still the case though. However, cell phones as secure communication did not use to be the case.
You would probably want to communicate with encrypted data traffic device to device.
marcus0x62
In the late 90s/early 2000's, I would hear voice telephone conversations in central offices quite frequently. (Nobody was spying on purpose, or even paying much attention to what was being said. It was incidental to troubleshooting some problem report.)
ArnoVW
From what I remember from early 2000’s only the air interface was encrypted. Since anyway they have to provide lawful intercept capability there was not much benefit in providing end to end encryption. It’s not like it was a top of mind feature for consumers.
Scoundreller
> It’s not like it was a top of mind feature for consumers.
BlackBerry got some market share for promoting their encryption.
Of course the encryption was complete junk, possibly worse than junk because of the false sense of security, unless you were an enterprise customer.
https://www.theregister.com/2016/04/15/canada_blackberry_wat...
ngneer
You appear to be neglecting the need for symmetric stream ciphers to achieve realtime communications (needed for performance reasons). No matter what you do, you are going to have a symmetric key in there somewhere for adversaries to extract. Once the adversary owns the telco, it is over (i.e., calls can be decrypted), no matter how strong the cryptography is. Your strongest cryptography cannot withstand a key leak.
andrewflnr
Do you know how TLS works? The asymmetric keys are used to negotiate temporary symmetric keys, which are used for the actual data. That's exactly what the mentioned Diffie-Hellman algorithm does. Also check out "perfect forward secrecy".
Narkov
> To me, this absolutely feels like a NOBUS vulnerability, if the SIM manufacturers and/or core network equipment vendors are in cahoots with the NSA and let the NSA take those keys, they can potentially listen in on all mobile phone traffic in the world.
This feels like the obligatory XKCD comic[1] when in reality there isn't any secretive key extraction or cracking...things are just sent unencrypted from deeper into the network to the three-letter-agencies. Telco's are well known to have interconnect rooms with agencies.
bayindirh
> Telco's are well known to have interconnect rooms with agencies.
Maybe these connections are a requirement for their permits in the first place. Who knows?
amiga386
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest#Refusal_of_NSA_surveilla...
Not a requirement, but if for some reason you don't do the Right Thing that the NSA wants, oh dear your CEO goes to jail, he was a bad boy, look at all that insider trading. You'll do the Right Thing next time we ask, capiche?
null
newsclues
I worked for a major telco in technical support/customer service.
I saw numerous security issues, and when I brought them up, with solutions to improve the service for customers, I was informed the the company would lose money.
Scammers are big customers for telcos, and when they get caught, and banned, they come back again and pay a new connection fee and start the cycle again. Scammers also enable feature upselling, another way to profit from not solving the problem.
whyever
Are you suggesting end-to-end encryption? Telecom providers have to implement "lawful intercept" interfaces to comply with the law in many jurisdictions.
dylan604
That's fine. Let them have lawful intercept into my encrypted communications. Let them eat static
2OEH8eoCRo0
"I don't understand it, must be <insert conspiracy>."
KevinGlass
You realize this exact thing was in the Snowden docs a decade ago? This exact worry, sim keys being hacked by the NSA, was in the leaks.
DaSHacka
You seem to have forgotten, anything inconvenient to the government is a conspiracy theory.
newsclues
follow the money. perverse incentives at play.
traceroute66
To be honest, the conclusion of the blog post that Freeswitch are not budging from their community release schedule does not surpise me one iota.
Freeswitch used to have a strong community spirit.
Things all changed since they took a more agressive commercial turn, a couple of years ago IIRC.
Since that point you now have to jump through the "register" hoop to gain access to stuff that should be open (I can't remember what it is, IIRC something like the APT repos being hidden behind a "register" wall, something like that).
I don't want to "register" with a commercial company to gain access to the foss community content. Because we all know what happens in the tech world if you give your details to a commercial company, the salesdroids start pestering you for an upsell/cross-sell, you get put in mailing lists you never asked to be put on, etc.
lenerdenator
I think it's fair to assume that between foreign threat actors, the Five Eyes/other Western pacts, and the demand to make the line go up, there's no real anonymity online. If they want you, they've got the means to get you.
In reality that's really no different than the pre-internet age. If you don't want your stuff intercepted, you need to encrypt it by means that aren't trivial to access electronically for a major security apparatus. Physical notes, word-of-mouth, hand signals, etc.
Also, you need to be ready for the consequences of what you say and do online should a state actor decide to allocate the resources to actually act upon the data they have.
ofrzeta
From the article I am not totally convinced that "Telecom security sucks today", given they just randomly picked Freeswitch to find a buffer overflow. "Telecom stacks" might or might be not insecure but what's done here is very weak evidence. The Salt Typhoon attacks allegedly exploited a Cisco vulnerability, although the analysts suggest the attackers have been using proper credentials (https://cyberscoop.com/cisco-talos-salt-typhoon-initial-acce...) So nothing to do with Freeswitch or anything.
posperson
Cisco Unified Call Manager almost certainly has vulnerabilities, as does Metaswitch which has shambled along in network cores after Microsoft publicly murdered it, Oracle SBC is often wonky just doing the basics, whatever shambling mess Teams is shipping this week for their TRouter implementation definitely has Denial of Service bugs that I can't properly isolate.
Lets not even talk about the mess of MF Tandems or almost every carrier barebacking the web by slinging raw unencrypted UDP SIP traffic over the internet...
It is possible to build secure systems in this space, but instead we have almost every major telecom carrier running proprietary unmodifiable platforms from long dead companies or projects (Nortel, Metaswitch,etc) and piles of technical debt that are generally worse than the horribly dated and unpatched equipment that comprises their networks.
tjohns
I find it absolutely insane that the industry standard for SIP trunks is unencrypted UDP, usually using IP-based authentication.
When I asked a popular VoIP carrier about this a while back, they argued that unencrypted connections were fine because the PSTN doesn't offer any encryption and they didn't want to give their customers a false sense of security. While technically true, this doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try to implement basic security where we can - especially for traffic sent over the public Internet.
jvdvegt
PSTN starts at the home router these days, I don't think I can get an actual analog line in my house.
jauntywundrkind
Painting a dire picture here!
It'd be lovely to see some nations of the world pour some serious money into the various Linux Foundation (or other open source) telco & cellular projects.
surajrmal
Pouring money is not how you get good quality software. You need a company driving product quality. Most Linux foundation projects have companies heavily invested in productionizing the projects and that leads to them contributing to them to ensure high quality code. Code without a driving product tends to wander aimlessly.
1oooqooq
Linux foundation is the thing financing backdoors. do not confuse it with Linux. the only money from the foundation that goes to actual Linux are a couple build servers. and one event sponsorship. absolutely nothing else.
some_furry
I've had a few conversations with [security nerds more familiar with telecom] since SignalWire broke embargo.
The "everything sucks and there's no motive to fix it" was a synopsis because, frankly, those conversations get really hard to follow if you don't know the jargon. And I didn't feel like trying to explain it poorly (since I don't understand the space that well, myself), so I left it at what I wrote.
(I didn't expect Hacker News to notice my blog at all.)
sunbum
As security nerd working within telecom agreed. Nobody really cares about security issues. And when people already struggle to care about the issues it gets even worse when fixing some of the issues (such as SS7 vulns) requires coordination with telcos around the world. cape[1] at least seems like its a breath of fresh air within the space.
[1] - cape.co
ikiris
Can confirm. It’s not even nonchalance, but outright hostility to security because that sounds like work and change. And if there’s anyone who hates change, it’s telcom. They still resent having to learn voip and it could have kids in college at this point.
1oooqooq
cape.co marketing sounds suspiciously like the cia front in Switzerland in the late 90s.
"hey you who needs privacy, here's something that somehow costs even less than the ones selling your data"
Semaphor
> (I didn't expect Hacker News to notice my blog at all.)
Your blog actually gets posted somewhat regularly [0]. I actually remembered it, because it’s one of the rare cases where I like the "cute" illustrations.
cyberax
I worked with telecom code. It's code that parses complicated network protocols with several generations of legacy, often written in secrecy (security by obscurity), and often in C/C++.
There's just no way it can be insecure. Right.
ofrzeta
I don't doubt that this cruft is insecure. It's just a bit of a stretch to get to that conclusion from finding a potential buffer overflow in Freeswitch. Maybe it's not a stretch but just a conclusion by analogy but then you might just say "all software is insecure".
surajrmal
That's also how the majority of network appliances are handled outside of Telecom.
amiga386
This blog article is a combination of "I did a thing I do for a living" plus "recipient of my report does not share my (and the rest of the Security Industry) values", and concludes that Telecom security sucks.
It's very nice that the author spent their free time looking at code, found a bug and reported it -- I don't want to discourage that at all, that's great. But the fact that one maintainer of one piece of software didn't bow and scrape to the author and follow Security Industry Best Practises, is not a strong basis for opining that "Telecom security sucks today" (even if it does)
If someone came to you with a bug in your code, and they didn't claim it was being actively exploited, and they didn't offer a PoC to confirm it could be exploited... why shouldn't you just treat it as a regular bug? Fix it now, and it'll be in the next release. What's that? People can see the changes? Well yes, they can see all the other changes too. Good luck to them finding an exploit, you didn't.
The same thing happens in Linux distros. A security bug gets reported. Sometimes, the upstream author is literally dead, not just intransigent. If you want change on your own timeline, make your own releases.
tlb
When the code is sprintf(stackbuf, "%s", attacker_supplied_input) in 2025, I expect some serious bowing and scraping.
camgunz
Yeah if anyone thinks people don't just run searches for `sprintf` they're pretty naive.
matthewdgreen
In fairness, with that level of vulnerability in the code, fixing it is like using paper towels to mop up the ocean.
johann8384
I imagine most of the people running Freeswitch have their own patches on top of the community releases anyway so we're compiling those security fixes in to our own builds. That's what we did anyway when I worked for a place using Asterisk, Freeswitch, and OpenSER/Kamailio whatever it is called this decade.
"potentially thousands of telecom stacks around the world that SignalWire has decided to keep vulnerable until the Summer, even after they published the patches on GitHub."
lsnd-95
One area where freeswitch is probably used quite often (and without support contract) are BigBlueButton installations (virtual classroom system) in schools and universities. I am more worried about them then about telcos.
CursedSilicon
In a past life I worked at AWS as a support engineer
I once got a ticket from T-Mobile (US) asking what "AWS's best practices were around security patching. How long should we wait?"
A week later they admitted to an enormous data breach
I'd say I switched phone carriers after that, but after working in the ISP market I already knew they were all absolute clown shows where all the money only went to C-levels and not infrastructure or security
dqv
I wonder how many people are even using the XML RPC module. It doesn't get loaded by default.
Edit: 468 according to Shodan. I'm wondering if senddirectorydocument gets used at all by the XML RPC module.
dqv
Following up on this, I was unable to get it to do anything.
curl --show-error --get --request GET --user freeswitch:works "http://localhost:8080/${SIXTEEN_THOUSAND_RANDOM_CHARACTERS}"
Any ideas on triggering it? I imagine if we get a PoC that at least causes a segfault or whatever, they will be more likely to do a security release.dangerboysteve
I maybe wrong, but I think you need to enable the module for API access.
dqv
Yeah, it's enabled with `load mod_xml_rpc`. Listening on 8080.
$ ./test3 # see above
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Error 408</TITLE></HEAD><BODY><H1>Error 408</H1><P>Problem getting the request header</P><p><HR><b><i><a href="http://xmlrpc-c.sourceforge.net">ABYSS Web Server for XML-RPC For C/C++</a></i></b> version 1.26.0<br></p></BODY></HTML>
hmmmrichardwhiuk
No major carrier is running FreeSwitch or Asterisk at the core.
EvanAnderson
Motorola's low-end 911 phone system, Emergency CallWorks (ECW), is Asterisk with proprietary modules running on Linux under Proxmox. Granted, Motorola is killing the produce, but it's out there. The one I babysit is heavily firewalled but I'd imagine not all of them are.
Narkov
This very much depends on your definition of major.
tonetegeatinst
Is that a Foss or GPL compliant codebase/OS?
eadmund
Why was FreeSWITCH written in C? Even in 2006 there were more secure alternatives.
We as an industry keep poking each ourselves in our collective eye with a sharp stick, wondering why it hurts.
dangerboysteve
It's the lang devs were comfortable with and some of them came from the asterisk world.
asimpleusecase
I would dare to whisper that the lack of security suits the NSA just fine. However you can add just about every technically competent nation state, organised crime, major corporations, and a collection of non-state actors. About the only group besides us nomies who I think might really care about this are the payment rails folks as this insecurity facilitates more fraud.
The author admits to having zero experience with carrier-level infrastructure, but their suspicions are essentially correct. I actually have done a fair bit of 4G and 5G specific pentesting and security research for a number of major carriers. While it varies between carriers and between product vendors, it's still an absolute horror show. Until very recently, the security was entirely achieved through obscurity. The 4G and 5G standards have started to address this, but there are still gaps big enough to be deeply concerning. I don't think it's overly hyperbolic to assume that any moderately sophisticated threat actor who wants a beachhead on a carrier can achieve it. I've demonstrated this multiple times, professionally. IMHO the hardware vendors from a certain East Asian state have such poorly written software stacks, that they could almost be classified as APTs - security is non-existent. There are valid reasons Western countries have banned them. Western hardware vendors have significantly more mature software, but are still many years behind what most of us would consider modern security best practices.