Ask HN: Are you a 40-year old software engineer without a job for > 1 year?
87 comments
·March 2, 2025irq-1
The best way to harness this is to offer what companies don't: unlimited time off, no return-to-office, health insurance and savings plans that don't kick-back to the company, flat(ter) management, no all-hands meetings...
schmookeeg
I'm overemployed as a 40+ but this would get a CV from me pretty quickly.
Offer some part-time options and you'll get a custom-crafted cover letter professing my love and why I am a perfect fit as well. :)
DougN7
Part time sounds magical. I think there would be a ton of very talented people interested in only working (and being paid for) 20 hours/week.
glenneroo
I've been doing 20 hours/week with occasional "overtime" periods i.e. 30-40 hours during crunch for the last 15 years and can't imagine ever doing full-time again. The QoL improvements are truly unbeatable, granted I take a huge pay-cut but life is more important than money.
gaws
> unlimited time off
Unlimited PTO is a scam. Instead, offer a generous amount of time off from the jump: Three to four weeks per year, with an option to roll over a portion each year and cash out the rest.
bruce511
We had unlimited leave for dome senior employees for a while. Those employees ended up taking less leave than they did before and so we canned it.
We have generous leave allowances (18 working days at a starting level.) We also have a flexible sick leave policy - there is a fixed amount but we've extended that for individuals on occasion when the situation demanded it (long hospital stays etc.)
So in theory unlimited time off sounds good, but in practice its not a perk.
irq-1
I was thinking of part-time work with unlimited time off: no expectations of normal working hours, or taking multiple months off. But you're right about time-off/sick days when the expectation is working a regular, full time job.
*! I was also assuming half the pay, but didn't write that either...
dabockster
The amount of job postings I've been seeing in Seattle from jobs of all kinds, not just tech, that aren't even offering health insurance for full time work is absolutely ridiculous.
readthenotes1
Sounds like a good charitable endeavor.
missedthecue
"no one is accepting my current price, so the solution is to increase my demands"?
dave333
This happened to me during the dot com bust and I was what I call self-unemployed from 2001-2007. I tried various things to make a living. Developed some games/puzzles websites that still make several hundred bucks every month like clockwork. Tried buying and selling stuff especially dot com surplus stuff like docking stations and also books and music CDs. Bought in quantity at local auctions and on eBay and sold individually through a website or on Amazon. Eventually I studied to become a mortgage broker and passed the real estate exam but then the subprime crisis burst and there was very little demand for mortgage loans anymore. Eventually I landed a software job at a startup and rejoined the full time employed.
Maybe create a software co-op where people meet and can give or get help with any projects they are working on. Meet anywhere convenient like local library or office after hours or even someones garage. Nobody gets paid unless by agreement and to make money people need to sell something (maybe just ads). There's a much bigger chance of success than if all the people work independently.
devKnight
what was it like going back to tech after 5-6 years? Was it a new stack? Were you doing some personal projects along the way to keep skills up?
dave333
It was pretty rough at first - my background was doing UI in C/Xwindows/Motif, followed by Java/Swing UI which was by far the most glacially slow stack. Javascript was fast taking over the browser but I didn't know it. I remember failing a job interview because I had no idea what a closure was although I was familiar with C stack frame and Java variable scoping. Another time I got a trial job at a one-room startup mainly on the recomendation of my reference, who reported back to me that he advised not working for the startup's CEO. Sure enough I lasted there a week although to be fair I was not yet competent in javascript. I did some private projects to learn it - sudoku websites - and later landed another startup job (mostly because I got the brain-teaser style interview questions right) doing javascript UI where I had free choice of frameworks and chose ExtJS. Six months later I got headhunted by a large company that was using ExtJS for its internal web framework. But JS frameworks were coming thick and fast: ExtJS, Dojo, jQuery, Angular, React and each harder to learn than the last for someone in their late 50s. But I would have to say the relief of earning a full salary again was immense compared to scrimping and saving and juggling credit card balances.
em-bee
not having an up-to-date experience is a real problem. i am struggling with that too. most jobs demand experience with current tools. it's really hard to find jobs where the company believes in the potential of learning new tools based on the experience with other comparable tools. i'd like to learn react and go, but i am already overwhelmed with writing job applications and taking care of my family.
mrcode007
Multiple possibilities exist but everything depends on context and the skill set.
One option is to start a consulting business with a group of engineers (essentially a market equivalent of a union but with more legal protections) and start charging very high market rates and nickel-and-dime the client hedge fund style with pass-through fees for everything. Use the knowledge of former jobs’ contracts and undercut on price.
If the skill set is very niche and highly specialized you could even attempt cornering the market by recruiting people away that are still employed and sell back their services through the consulting gig (offer profit share as a sweetener, etc.)
pinoy420
[dead]
nitwit005
It sounds like you're proposing hiring people for less than they used to make. That can absolutely work.
The problem tends to be that high unemployment tends to coincide with economic downturns. It's hard to get investment to start a business during such a downturn.
pragmatic
I feel bad for this age cohort.
Those a little bit older who started during or right after the dot bomb fiasco knew (or should have known) that software might pay well or "is fun/interesting" but have a plan to get out by 40.
I discussed this with same age or older colleagues and tried to impress upon younger colleagues the importance of saving and investing and lifestyle inflation etc.
If you started in 2005 or later you could be forgiven for think you'd found the golden ticket and 6 future salaries, bonuses and stock were never going to end just bc you could npm a bunch of js together.
Ancapistani
I’m 41, so I fall right into this.
I never had any illusion that things would last forever as they were - for that matter, things have changes significantly over the past 20 years anyhow.
I’ve always felt like I’m “riding a wave”, and the work I’m doing in AI these days leads me to believe this particular wave is ending. My plan is to jump onto the coming “AI wave”. I see it as taller (there’s more short-term earning potential there) but much faster moving (it’ll be over sooner).
If I can get to the top of this oncoming wave hopefully I can make enough to retire comfortably. If not, then I’ll keep doing what I’ve been doing: looking for that next wave and jumping onto it before there’s sand under my feet :)
nathanaldensr
To answer the question directly: there isn't an obvious way that is economical. There's nothing intrinsically valuable about a group of 40+ technologists when most investments seem to be in the AI space or in other hype-driven spaces.
I'm 43, about to turn 44, and I've been unemployed for three years. My former employer fired me for not vaxxing despite being a full-time remote employee as I refused to give in to their ridiculous requirement. I've been taking care of my aging parents since then as my dad has developed dementia.
I'm interested in working in software again as tech has been my life since I was 13 years old. I've got tons of skills and experience, not just in tech but also leadership, but the prospect of insane hazing rituals known as "tech interviews" has me discouraged. I've been considering starting a tech services business but the economy is rough right now and I'm living in one of the most expensive states in the US.
If anyone could use an experienced .NET dev/DevOps or team lead, look me up.
AaronAPU
I’m 43 and in a town where there basically isn’t a tech industry. Worked remote for like 20 years but now remote is hated by employers because the hordes started doing it during COVID and ruined it for people like me.
Started my own single person company a couple years ago and haven’t looked back. It does well enough to fund my modest lifestyle and I would frankly rather die than go back to interviewing and working for someone else.
The tech industry sickens me in general. It’s done so much damage to our society. Feels way better interacting with customers directly and treating software like a craft/trade.
em-bee
how do you find clients when you are remote? did you travel to meet people? i find looking for a job vs looking for clients as a freelancer is really no different, especially when working remotely without the ability to travel.
profsummergig
Serious question: what's the definition of "skilled software engineer"?
austin-cheney
In the world of JavaScript its the person who uses the most tools, sometimes all of them simultaneously.
hackable_sand
The CSV CV strategy.
profsummergig
Elaborate please? I googled the term but didn't get anything certain.
ninetyninenine
Someone you would consider skilled. Your own personal definition of this would suffice.
I suspect though there isn't a lot of these people that are unemployed. There's more "mediocre" engineers that are in this zone.
ivewonyoung
Perhaps but it may also include people that were consciously or unconsciously passed on because of their age.
colesantiago
> Is this an arbitrage opportunity? What's the best way to harness this concentration of energy?
Here is a profitable idea.
Make a group decision and choose a target profitable SaaS company or startup of your choice, replicate it with AI and race the target SaaS company to near zero in pricing and sell your services as the cheapest offering to SMEs and enterprises (assuming you guys have experience in this area)
Keep it running or sell it to another business and the collective reaps the profits once the target SaaS company is dead or is unable to compete.
Repeat for all or any companies or startups that you wish should not exist or that laid you off in the past
jdlshore
You’re making the mistake of believing that people choose B2B SaaS purely on the basis of price and features. While those are a component, reputation, marketing, and an effective sales force are far more important.
AznHisoka
This. It would take a lot for me to switch over to a cheaper provider especially if it was something mission critical. It’s way too risky.
On the other hand, if it wasn’t mission critical (let’s say replacing my todo list tracker), then I wouldn’t even consider replacing it because it’s not critical, and it’s not expensive. Why should I waste my time replacing it with something a bit cheaper?
So it’s a catch 22
colesantiago
Until your existing provider jacks up prices 20x because they know you won't move.
colesantiago
And so do the collective people who worked on the competing SaaS have all of those skills as well to use to their advantage.
Just say you've worked at Google, Microsoft, Intel, etc, 300 years of collective experience.
S4 Capital famously won contracts away from WPP even though WPP had a long standing reputation and marketing prowess.
conductr
A lot of naysayers on this idea but there’s plenty of low hanging fruit that companies would love to find a cheaper option for. It would of course take time to gain traction without a sales force but also this very community of people that would band together could effectively evangelize a better solution with just their existing network. Tech people are often the early adopters and word spread via Twitter, etc.
I’m in non-tech industries in finance/accounting and during budget conversations a few things over the past few years consistently pop up as this costs too damn much; smartsheets, zoom, slack, etc. I actually implement a specific Oracle product that costs most companies 6 figures a year that could easily be self service SAAS product with a much better solution. Financial analysts skew mildly technical and could implement it themselves and be targeted fairly easily. Competition exists but they always bloat the product to charge almost as much or more than Oracle does. But end users only care about a few small features and I think some one could execute those much better than what exists on the market. All competitors require an enterprise software sales process to even see/demo their software. If the analysts could login, connect to their data, and set some custom configurations (possibly llm assisted?), and worry about monetizing the relationship until the value prop has been realized- then I think this would spread on its own, people in the industry talk, change jobs frequently and take their tooling preferences with them. Best of all, this group of people usually report to a cfo and can offer their department a significant cost savings by doing this, saving the company money is literally their job already. That’s my business idea without giving it away entirely lol.
Comment here if you’re actually interested in this, I would love to join a group like this working on something as a group. I can code but never done so professionally or as part of a team.
em-bee
this does sound interesting, but the challenge is still funding the start. bootstrapping is great (and i prefer it over having investors) but i still need to feed my kids. so the question is, how do we get to ramen-profitability (make enough so we can feed ourselves, even if it's only ramen noodles)
conductr
I get it but don’t have a direct solution for that, it’s a process and includes many unknowns and has no guarantees but isn’t the premise here to use our unproductive time while unemployed to create something that hopefully is worth something one day?
It’s odd to me that while unemployed people are all individually working on side projects, learning the latest stacks, etc and do it all as throwaway code that will never see the light of day-and that’s seen as acceptable, as is contributing to open source, etc. But doing those same activities as a cooperative and paid in equity is where people draw a line.
There’s definitely a lot of details to work out if this were to take shape. How much equity do people earn, what happens when they get a job and their availability declines, etc. But it wouldn’t take much effort to think through those kinds of things and make something reasonable/fair.
MasterScrat
I suspect the largest opportunity right now is to leverage whichever industry you have experience in, and build vertical tooling that leverages LLM.
fragmede
There are two markets. One is this means that you can make software for cheaper. What software didn't exist because it was too expensive to create? Nevermind finding a team in India or Eastern Europe, you can now make a US team and pay them in equity until you get funding/revenue. What underserved niche does your mom/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/dog currently not have software for, that they'd be worth a couple of bucks for? What niche, existing piece of software is out there that currently sucks?
The other market is this cohort themselves. What will "40 year old software engineers without a job" pay for? Food, rent, gym membership, haircuts, Factorio. Figure out something they want/need (other than jobs) that they'll pay for, and make that.
zeroc8
I think that's the main problem.
The low hanging fruits have all been picked a long time ago. You can try to undercut existing software, but it's not easy.
aqueueaqueue
You need new companies to employ them. So maybe online or city based meetups to collaborate the get the new companies started.
They don't have to be startups. They can be consultancies.
omarfigueroa_10
Hi everyone – I know this might not be the right thread, but I’m a cofounder of an MIT-founded startup looking for an experienced backend developer. If you’re interested in connecting, please reply to this message. Looking forward to chatting!
em-bee
you should post on the monthly whoishiring thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring
this month is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43243024
if remote work is ok, please contact me. email is in my profile.
Large numbers of skilled software engineers are unemployed for months. Many are unemployed for more than a year.
Is this an arbitrage opportunity? What's the best way to harness this concentration of energy?