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Fabric and craft retailer Joann to go out of business, close all of its stores

acuozzo

Now, instead of purchasing a single $3 yarn skein in the color you need at Joann, you can purchase a rainbow of 62 yarns skeins for $35 from Amazon! sigh

I remember when this happened to RadioShack. I went from being able to purchase just the resistor I needed to a $15 pack of 1,000 resistors I'll never use.

I'm not religious, but if Pope Francis survives, then perhaps we can convince him to add profligacy to the list of deadly sins.

H1Supreme

> I went from being able to purchase just the resistor I needed to a $15 pack of 1,000 resistors I'll never use

The last time I bought resistors from Radio Shack, which was well over a decade ago, they were $1 a piece. A piece! While I get your sentiment, you can buy resistors in packs of 100 for roughly the same price you used to get 5 for.

ryandrake

But what if you don't need 100 resistors? If I want an oddball resistor size, it may be for just one project/experiment. Now I have to store the remaining 99 somewhere or throw them away. I'd rather pay $1 for one resistor than $15 for 100.

Blackthorn

Best bet for an electronic anything right now is Tayda. They sell in hobbyist sizes. You'll still need to buy 10 resistors, but that's kind of reasonable.

acheron

There are usually independent yarn shops around. More likely than independent resistor shops, anyway.

anarchonurzox

I live in a midwestern city of 50k. The only alternative we have is Hobby Lobby. I can't say I loved the selection available at Joann's, but at least we had something.

Unfortunately not all of us live in dense urban centers that can support boutique craft stores.

saguntum

My husband crochets, and the problem with most of the local yarn stores is that a lot of them cater to more "boutique" yarn. It's hard to find cheap, standard yarn in a variety of colors for him.

shitecoin

"Just go to <expensive place you can't afford or that your town might not have>" is such a classic response from people who shop at Whole Foods.

josefresco

We're an "Amazon family" as much as the next and my wife still went/goes to Joann on a regular basis to purchase material for various craft/sewing projects. I can't imagine buying fabric online considering how "feel' is an important characteristic.

Update: I told her this news and she basically said that every time she was in there, it was a ghost town. I guess we're the outliers ¯\(ツ)/¯

macintux

I really miss our local Fry's: my electronics knowledge is basically zero, and it was educational to explore the hardware aisles and look at the individual components.

JKCalhoun

A lot of places online you can order "samples" for a few bucks. If you like the sample, order a few yards.

But just in general, this suggests to me more of a sign of the public increasingly turning toward passive or, if you will, packaged entertainment. Does anyone still build plastic models, fly RC airplanes, get together for card games, or bowl?

Maybe though someone in my neighborhood will start up a doom-scrolling league that the wife and I can join. And there's always the watercooler where we can suggest to others that they watch some streaming shows we saw that they've never heard of.

Reubachi

As a matter of fact, more people now than ever before can be fit into the groups "Model Hobbyist" or "card/board game hobbyist".

Twice a week I play board/tabletop card games with two seperate groups in two seprate states. Currently surrounded by kit cars I bought from/with a group of colleagues.

"do kids still bowl", I can't help you much there. Kids are currently socialising both online and in person in ways you and I can't even conceputailize.

TLDR it's not all doom and gloom, HN comments isn't the best for this.

mcphage

> Does anyone still build plastic models, fly RC airplanes, get together for card games, or bowl?

Board games are more popular than ever before. I would guess a lot of RC airplane use has been replaced with drones.

Model building, that I'm not so sure about. Or engineering toys in general. Lego is bigger than it ever was before, but that's not quite the same thing. Not sure if it's sucking all of the air out of the market. Miniature dollhouse kits are getting more popular, thanks to Chinese manufacturers like Rolife and Cutebee. But beyond that, it's something I wonder about a lot, and I don't know how to answer that.

legitster

I was recently working on an upholstery project and I agree, Joann's selection was excellent.

But I think part of the reality is that most customers, even sewing customers, don't stop and consider the "feel" of fabric. If you look at what the median sewing machine user is doing, it's probably cranking out a tacky quilt made from cheap polyester fabrics. (Certainly seems to be a favorite activity in my extended family).

And honestly, for all the floorspace dedicated to sewing and crafting materials, I wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of their sales these days was coming from decorations and art supplies for kids.

massysett

DigiKey for electronic parts. Get whatever quantity you want. Amazon is rotten for this kind of thing, practically no search or browse capability.

giantg2

Yes, please charge me $6 shipping for my 10 cent resistor.

Reubachi

this is the conundrum and isn't the fault of the vendor. It costs that much to ship a part. Amazon has, does, and will always subsidize shipping.

What's your idea of a solution? If you need the resistor, and there's no service/parts shop, what do you do?

I think the answer of "Pay more for the part in bulk via an online vendor" is ideal. BEcause that online vendor can also send soap, car parts, clothes, and books at the same time.

Blackthorn

Yeah that's ultimately the downside with online stores. You have to pay the actual price of shipping, or they subsidize it a little bit but not very much. Rip radio shack, but there's probably not enough electronic hobbyists to support that anymore.

s1artibartfast

One of the reasons cited in their bankruptcy is that they weren't able to keep yarn and hobby materials in stock, diminishing their utility as a one stop physical stock for hobbyists.

My wife was bummed when I told her about it, but I also recall going several times where they were stocked out of many items, so I kind of get it. Hard to justify a 30/60 minute trip if there is a good chance you wind up empty handeded

jordanb

Joann was owned (and killed) by private equity.

Going on a rampage against in-store inventory is a classic PE retail move.

In-store inventory is expensive, subject to shrinkage, etc. So by the spreadsheet, less inventory looks good. But of course, if it's not in-stock when your customer shows up, that's a wasted trip. Only has to happen a few times before your customers quit showing up altogether.

s1artibartfast

Regarding RadioShack, there are a wide number of non-amazon alternatives if you are willing to move away from prime.

I find that professional websites like McMaster, Grainger, and Digikey do everything I've wanted amazon to do for years. They have excellent search, organized part catalogs, spec sheets, CAD, and no counterfeits.

I checked and Digikey sells most individual resistors singles for $0.10ea, and $0.004ea for 5,000 ($20).

busterarm

My memories of RatShack are less fond. #1 place to go to buy batteries that were already dead in the package. Even in the '80s.

ksenzee

Love all the folks on here asserting that there’s no market for craft supplies. The market for yarn specifically is actually so large that it supports a huge number of local yarn shops in addition to multiple big box chains. Everywhere I travel, I find more than one local yarn shop, somehow thriving in spite of Joann and its ilk charging considerably less for what you might think was a similar product. (In reality, the yarn sold at local yarn shops is much higher quality.)

notcancer

We all know Hacker News would've done it right, because they wouldn't even have physical stores, just a mailing list sign up page teasing the yarn, followed by giving away free yarn, then jacking up the price and making you watch ads before you can buy the yarn (after the series D), followed by a "Thanks for a great journey" blog post on LinkedIn.

disqard

Actually selling physical goods? That's so last-century...

You could own an NFT of the yarn instead! Oh wait, that's no longer in vogue? I'll show myself out now.

paleotrope

What big box chains?

legitster

This is a huge bummer. A few years ago Joann's seemed like it was doing well. The internet offers a vastly inferior experience if you need to do things like try out fabrics. Either people are crafting less or they are putting up with inferior materials.

One of the big takeaways people need to understand is that inventory costs are eating these businesses alive. To keep a hundred different types of fabric available in hundreds of different stores to sell by the inch is expensive, as is the floor space to do it. On a cost basis you are never going to compete with an online store with one inventory, or a warehouse stores that move products in quantity and don't maintain inventory.

Shog9

There are plenty of businesses that can and do compete with online, or do both (using their distributed inventory to reduce the time it takes to ship online orders).

But saddling a retail company with tons of debt makes much, much harder; profits that should be going to restock instead go toward financing the debt.

We don't really need to read tea leaves here to figure out the cause of death.

legitster

Business School 101: Whether you finance your inventory or pay cash doesn't actually make much difference if it doesn't move. Costco or Walmart or any other retailer that is successful right now also uses credit to acquire inventory. (Costco has $10 billion in rolling debt and Walmart has $60 billion, btw. Both seem to be doing fine.)

And again, the businesses that compete with the internet right now are doing it by keeping their inventory costs in check. They have either moved most of their "selection" to online-only, or they have done away with consistent inventory across stores.

retrochameleon

Optimistic take: Big box stores closing opens a gap for local stores to fill.

Reubachi

There's no equivilent stores to fill these spaces. local card shop? Pharmacy? clothes? Restaurant? What is succesful anymore in person?

We all know what will happen, as has happened over and over. Amazon or walmart distribution or fleet service location, OR cleared to make way for a hastily/shoddily put up "luxury apartment complex" made of plastic and plastic+.

alephnerd

Absolutely! There is a PMF for stores selling craft goods to hobbyists.

It's not a business model that can justify a cross national big-box store chain, but it can absolutely support local businesses who can better manage margins.

And this was a major reason why Joann's (and similar big boxes like Toys-r-Us or Borders) couldn't compete.

ksenzee

TBF Joann’s didn’t fail because of their business model. They failed because they were looted by private equity.

alephnerd

I have written a comment below on why this train of thought is reductive.

JKCalhoun

I get your point, but I also see, "Here, take our failed business segment and see what you can do with it".

Guessing too prices for fabric, etc. will be higher.

notcancer

If only local stores could compete with massive conglomerates and private equity.

diego_moita

Pessimistic take: it opens a gap to Aliexpress, Temu and Amazon.

adamredwoods

Oddly, their online sales were growing 11%. Spin off the name into online only presence? It does seem that debt was the biggest problem.

>> Sales fell 4.1% to $539.8 million. Same-store sales also dropped 4.1%, including a jump of 11.5% for e-commerce sales.

mattmaroon

The debt was a symptom of a bad management team. The first bankruptcy could have been survivable if they had not taken such a hard line against layoffs. They wanted so much to keep all of their stores and employees, which is a lovely goal but was unfeasible.

Had they cut underperforming stores and reduced headcount, they could have survived.

I know first hand how awful it is to lay people off due to your own mistakes, but I also remember my investors advising me to get to sustainable in one round.

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diego_moita

Meanwhile, somewhere in China, a few small companies selling on Temu and Aliexpress see a new chance of taking another byte on the U.S. market.

ryandrake

If I remember correctly, Joann is one of the (too many) stores that fucked around during COVID: Defying business closures and stay-at-home, denying paid sick leave for sick employees, and trying desperately to get themselves declared as an "essential business" so they could remain open. Fitting end for a scummy company IMO.

legitster

They kind of were though.

If you remember the early days of Covid when there were mask shortages, people REALLY needed access to fabric and supplies, etc.

Also, arts and crafts were pretty essential to our sanity when staying home with kids during Covid.

ryandrakepos

[flagged]

Blackthorn

The scourge of private equity claims another victim.

alephnerd

The economics of a big-box single dedicated store for hobbyists a la Joann's doesn't work anymore.

The textiles industry is almost entirely outsourced, and the margins of being a middleman like Joann's doesn't work when imports are growing expensive AND online stores can sell similar products at a lower price, and your prices are roughly comparable to the local mom-and-pop.

Furthermore, assuming it's PE that causes companies to fail is a reversal of cause and effect. You sell to PE when your company or organization's "gas" is largely spent, and there is no foreseeable growth, so you cannot raise money traditionally.

For every Joann (stripped for parts by PE) you can also point to a Sailpoint (taken private by a PE and now one of the first IPOs in 2025)

squeedles

Better tell Michaels and Hobby Lobby then, because I don't think they got your memo.

Joann's won the industry consolidation phase in the 80s-90s, but took on a lot of debt to buy out House of Fabrics, So-Fro and others. They had almost completely retired that debt by the mid 2000s and would be sitting pretty today, but sold out to private equity in 2010. The PE did the usual LBO shit of borrowing a the purchase money and then transferring the debt to the company. Boom, one billion in the hole, buyers strip anything of value, no coming back from that.

I'll miss them because touching fabric is important. fabric ain't like resistors, one 100ohm feels pretty much like the next, and Joanns covered quilters, apparel sewers and upholstery/decor sewers pretty well.

alephnerd

> Better tell Michaels and Hobby Lobby then, because I don't think they got your memo.

Michael's is owned by Apollo Group.

Hobby Lobby is family owned, but unlike Joann's and Michael's they wouldn't take long term leases or purchase the stores themselves, and concentrate on higher margin furniture.

> The PE did the usual LBO shit of borrowing a the purchase money and then transferring the debt to the company

Yep, but who else was interested in investing in Joann's in the 2010s? There were way better asset classes like Pharma, Finance, and Tech that you could invest in and get better returns.

LBOs are basically investors of last resort - this is where zombie companies (which Joann's absolutely was) go to die.

> I'll miss them because touching fabric is important

And we're lucky that local hobbyist shops still exist along with local fabrics shops. They can provide a better customer experience than a big box like Joann's, Michael's, or Hobby Lobby with decent margins.

notcancer

Call me old-fashioned, but maybe craft stores don't need infinite double-digit growth.

alephnerd

Then why should I (or my 401K provider) put my money in Joanns?

And this is why companies get sold to PE - traditional investors are investing to make money. If an asset isn't making money (eg. Joann's), you invest elsewhere (eg. Alphabet).

And if you're on HN, you probably have a 401K or IRA and are also enabling this, so cut the "holier than thou" BS.

lambdasquirrel

> The economics of a single dedicated store for hobbyists a la Joann's doesn't work anymore.

Why is that? I still see stores for board games and the likelihood of making a profit from a board game is abysmal. Blick Art seems to be doing well enough. Even Barnes and Nobles had a turnaround.

I just went to a JoAnn’s a few months ago. If you told me that they were getting a PE makeover I wouldn’t have known.

alephnerd

> Why is that? I still see stores for board games and the likelihood of making a profit from a board game is abysmal. Blick Art seems to be doing well enough. Even Barnes and Nobles had a turnaround

I mean big box retailers.

A major aspect for big box retailers is real estate. Joann's, Michaels, Toys-R-Us, etc would often take either long term leases or outright own the property of the store itself.

A smaller/local business targeting hobbyists can concentrate primarily on customer experience and inventory, because they generally do not try to enter the asset speculation game as well.

JKCalhoun

> The economics of a single dedicated store for hobbyists a la Joann's doesn't work anymore.

More's the pity then.

alephnerd

I meant a big box.

I think the hobbyist model will continue to work and thrive if you are a local/regional business

tbatchelli

Maybe a bit of a chicken or egg problem? I don’t know enough about Joann, but I remember when borders closed and B&N went almost too. At the time, these stores had become a bore. Only peddling bill O’Reilly and Hillary Clinton’s books. But now bookstores are thriving too, and so is B&N in large part because each store is managed independently, and not driven by corporate and their large contracts with large publishers.

So maybe when you stop being customer centric and become corporate profit centric you end up losing customers first and profits later.

PE firms in these cases are just the bottom feeders that processes these corporate carcasses, not the cause of their deaths.

It’s different when PE firms go after resources that people need, like health care or elderly care. Here they are acting as sociopaths. They know people will pay as much as they have to, as the other options are death and suffering. Despicable.

alephnerd

> So maybe when you stop being customer centric and become corporate profit centric you end up losing customers first and profits later

You can be customer centric AND profit centric. The issue is when "customer centric" doesn't align with "profit".

Big box and chain retailers often try to own the property the store is located on, so they would essentially become a property speculation play.

Add to that the cost of managing inventory, which means you want to reduce the amount of SKUs offered in order to reduce management overhead, but as a customer that feels like an adverse customer experience. Yet unlike a local business, that chain retailer cannot optimize on customer service because of those thin margins needed to service real estate.

selectodude

It was really the first round of tariffs on China. They were competing against a bunch of Chinese drop shippers operating under the de minimis exception. They were paying more for yarn wholesale than you were paying to get it sent to your door because of the tariffs.

GenerocUsername

I want this to make sense... But that doesn't make sense.

Wouldn't the chinese dropshippers be hit with Tariffs

infecto

de minimis refers to the Section 321 exemption, which allows shipments valued at $800 or less to enter duty-free and without formal customs entry

snapcaster

Is this fair? I mean, i'm not saying PE didn't accelerate demise or something but this business model is so doomed it doesn't seem fair to blame PE

jordanb

Every time PE wrecks a company their excuse is "it was doomed anyway." That's not a falsifiable statement, except then you look at competitors that weren't wrecked by PE and they're doing fine.

The entire original "retailpocalypse" was an orgy of PE in retail. If you wanted to know which retailers were going to survive all you had to do is look at the ownership.

GeekyBear

If you are the kind of person who is entertained by making your own clothing, you're probably also entertained by seeing and selecting the materials that go into your projects.

It's no more an obsolete business model than something like a Bass Pro Shop. It's just a different hobby.

snapcaster

This is a good point, maybe i'm too pessimistic on these sorts of businesses

Blackthorn

Well let's see, without PE they wouldn't have been loaded with absurd debt. So... Yeah, this bankruptcy is absolutely fair to blame pe on.

notcancer

Yeah, selling goods at a store is so 2006. Everyone knows the only real businesses left are memecoins, SaaS, and consulting. Everyone else should get a real job.

snapcaster

I wasn't saying it was doomed because it's brick and mortar retail. I was saying it was doomed because 100% of the people i know who are into this stuff have shifted to buying online. Arts and crafts require a really long tail of different varieties of things it's a particularly hard retail business imo

josefritzishere

Another fatality of Private Equity.

legitster

I'm not sure yet if this one can be chalked up to private equity. It seems like most of the debt they accrued was while they were public again. And most of that debt came from inventory costs.