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Right to Repair laws have now been introduced in all 50 us states

seanw444

As someone who frequently disagrees with the overwhelming majority political opinion on this site, this is one thing I wish all states could find common ground on. The amount of waste and value extraction that corporations force on us, when we could simply repair and maintain what we already have, is downright evil.

cooper_ganglia

Hard to imagine any reasonable individual being opposed to this, regardless of politics!

smallmancontrov

> reasonable

If your net worth is high enough that anti-consumer policy pumps your assets harder than it dumps your consumption, it's rational. A huge jerk move, sure, and arguably unreasonable on those grounds, but it's rational. Unfortunately the $600B sponsor and $6B president are faaaar on the other side of the invisible net worth boundary where that starts to be the case, so I wouldn't expect RtR to get much traction, but who knows. There is enough chaos to make it worth a try even if it "ought" to fail on grounds of "government by the rich, for the rich."

asacrowflies

It has been politicized heavily by maga type crowds who don't really know what it means.... I have had ppl at the barbershop call me a socialist because I wanted right to repair...

mindslight

But there isn't really an "overwhelming majority political opinion" on this site? Hence the long threads of comments of people disagreeing on the merits of ideas. Unless you're referring to the anti-trump sentiment, which is more pan-political as there are obviously a whole bunch of Americans that don't want to see our country destroyed regardless of how we wish it might be reformed.

cooper_ganglia

He won the popular vote with a diverse coalition, pro-Trump sentiment is pan-political. Your opinion on this is objectively in the minority of Americans.

tzs

He got 49.8% of the popular vote.

mindslight

Sure, simplistic populism plays out in wider society where short quips and repetition matter more than coherent ideas. That doesn't really change what I said though.

(For context, because I know the tendency is to pigeonhole commenters - I'm a libertarian who shares many of the frustrations driving the destructive fervor)

tehjoker

the popular vote win represents something like 25% of Americans, the other option being a genocidal dementia patient. how can anyone say that was a legitimate choice?

ok123456

Car manufacturers trying to lock down their systems turned the tide on this issue.

Tell someone their $500 gadget is disposable; most people will be mildly frustrated. Tell someone that their $70,000 vehicle, on which they still have years of payments to make, is disposable or unrepairable by their usual mechanic; most people will feel more than just frustrated.

freedomben

I want to think you're right, but most of the activation I've seen on RtR is from people who are mechanics and others whose livelihoods are threatened by this (like farmers). Most consumers (at least in my small sample of anecdata) don't seem to care at all for whatever reason. The ones who do are a small enough group to be safely ignored.

sudoshred

On the surface that makes sense. From a consumer perspective lack of RtR just indicates the consumer needs to spend elsewhere if it becomes a concern.

octorian

This is an easy dodge. The problem is that when lack of repairability becomes the norm, the consumer no longer has that choice. Or they have to severely compromise their market choices in the search for repairable products.

And wanting repairable products is something most consumers don't even think about at time of purchase. Its something that comes further down the line, when the purchase decision has already been made.

api

Also farmers, who have been turned upside down and shaken by John Deere and other manufacturers using locked down hardware. The farming lobby is powerful.

lolinder

Yeah, my sense in following this is that farmers have had a far bigger impact than consumers. I'll take your $70,000 car and raise you a $500,000 tractor that's core to a farmer's livelihood.

bluGill

From what I can tell the only mechanics who care are trying to illegally bypass emmissions controls, or they are trying to run a chop shop steeling cars for parts. Cars are very repairable outside a dealer for most things.

though I'm told tesla is an exception and they are unrepairable - I don't drive one so I wouldn't know.

the above is my personal opinion. My employeer has an opinion on this subject, but I don't speak for them.

poly_morphis

Take Volkswagen vehicles (VW/Audi, mainly). Nearly every electronic module in the car that you'd want to replace has component protection, making it literally impossible for a non-dealer to replace it since you need access to VAG servers to get the token to code the module for the car VIN. I had this experience recently with a CAN bus controller module that just randomly failed. $3k at the dealer. I would have preferred to do it myself but there is no way.

protonbob

This is incorrect. Often times manufacturers will lock down the systems that can report statistics and reset failures to only work with their proprietary tools. They will not sell these tools and force people to go to the dealer. After a while the dealer can close or not sell that tool anymore and now people have an expensive paperweight that caused tons of emissions to create.

bluGill

This is often accused but it is already a violation of federal laws that have been around for ages. It is called obd and covers a lot more than emissions.

right to repair may cover more but it isn't nearly as useful for normal diagnostics.

gs17

If anyone from The Repair Association is reading, there are a bunch of issues with the website. It sends me to https://tennessee.repair.org/ , which has a broken iframe for the "Make your voice heard" section. Fortunately the "Tell your repair story" section seems to also handle contacting representatives, except it auto-fills to what seems to be the wrong bill. It tells them I want them to support SB0077, which "As introduced, extends the medical cannabis commission to June 30, 2029" (I don't know enough about it to know if I actually do support this or not), instead of SB0499, which "As introduced, enacts the "Agricultural Right to Repair Act." The header of the page has correct bills for last year.

smashah

Right to Repair should extend to software also. Just the same way someone can make an accessory for a tractor without permission from the tractor company, developers should be able to make tools for software/accounts without the express permission of the megacorp behind it without needing to worry about legal threats.

layer8

Note that “introduced” refers to bills being filed. Only five states have actually passed RtR laws yet.

esafak

Proposed would have been more accurate, for the average person.

fluidcruft

I really have trouble understanding that map. What does "Active and Passed" mean? I assumed it meant they had passed laws and updates in the works, but those States are excluded from the praise over the "Passed" States. I presume "Historical" means "Failed to pass" and no current activity to get a law passed.

hn_throwaway_99

You are correct, something is not in sync with that map and their description. That is, their description says that five states have passed legislation: New York, California, Minnesota, Oregon, and Colorado. But in the "Passed" and "Active and Passed" categories on the map, it includes those 5 states plus Massachusetts.

FWIW, all of the searching I could find about Right to Repair laws in Massachusetts focused solely on vehicle right to repair (e.g. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Massachusetts_Question_1), not on electronic devices generally, so maybe that's why Massachusetts was not included in the description (which specifically said "passed electronics right to repair legislation") but was categorized on the map.

seanw444

Maybe they're excluded because they've already been praised, and they're focused on the new states joining in? I assume "active and passed" means that they not only passed the laws, but they are currently in effect. A law being passed doesn't necessarily put it into immediate effect.

fluidcruft

I did consider that interpretation, but by "praise" I simply mean that the article says "Five states (New York, California, Minnesota, Oregon, and Colorado) have passed electronics Right to Repair legislation" and that "the remaining states are working hard to restore repair competition" which is also overblown since so many of the States are merely "Historical" with nothing going on.

antasvara

Based on what I know about one of the states in question, I'm thinking that "Active and Passed" means they have both a passed bill and an active bill that isn't passed. Though I'd think they'd call that "Passed and Current" to match their other nomenclature.

42772827

I wonder if we’ll see “compliance devices” like we saw compliance cars in California. That is, highly modular, repairable devices available to consumers inclined that way, “offsetting” some of the other devices companies like Apple make

swayvil

This is morally obvious. We only have a law about it because somebody's feeling greedy or squeezed.

Law is a maximally complex representation of reality manifested by anxiety.

amelius

Does this mean I have the right to repair my Tesla, and how long until Musk thinks this is a bad idea.

ChrisArchitect

Challenges from Alliance for Automotive Innovation mounting also though:

Massachusetts https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43021108

Maine https://pirg.org/articles/automakers-sue-maine-to-block-repa...

noobermin

Time for republicans to call them woke and dei so they can be safely disposed of.

deadbabe

Can someone explain why this isn’t the big win we think it is?

techjamie

It's better than nothing. But introduced and passed are different things. An introduced bill may never actually become law.

The upside is that this shows how popular RtR is, and there's a good chance at least several states may implement their laws. At some point, even if it isn't universal, all it takes is enough states to force manufacturers to support independent repair by default.

abeppu

In particular it's depressing that the map near the top of the article shows that for a majority of states, the introduction of the bill is "historical", as in neither passed, active or current, but (IIUC) it was floated in some prior legislative session, but it's not even under consideration in the present session.

immibis

They could go for the Apple-in-Europe model, where you have the right to repair only if your geolocation detects you being in a state where it's mandatory for you to have that right, otherwise it still locks you out.

advisedwang

Because this just means a single legislator has sponsored a bill. It doesn't mean it has pass, nor does it it even mean it is likely to pass. It's actual laws getting passed that matter.

Of course this IS a milestone to getting a law passed, and shows that the campaign is getting legislators' notice etc. So it is still good.

seanw444

Even the "active and passed" states (particularly New York) passed a neutered version of right-to-repair that barely does anything. I only understand vaguely, but Louis Rossman has been outspoken about the progress of NY right-to-repair in particular, and how it flopped hard. As much as right-to-repair seems like a party line issue, even many of the Democrats have thus far been all talk and no substance.

AaronM

Because the large corporations have virtually unlimited power to water down bills with campaign contributions. It takes very little to money to sway a representative federally. How much less do you think it takes to sway a state level candidate?

Spending cash on candidates to prevent bills like this is likely a rounding error on their yearly budget.

tossandthrow

I think it is. But what company is going to advertise this on times square?

dylan604

Because a bill was introduced does not mean that it will pass nor be signed into law.

glenstein

>Can someone explain why this isn’t the big win we think it is?

I mean, there is the psychological phenomenon known as the Just World Hypothesis. When presented with something that's simply bad, or simply good, people are skeptical and tempted to search for the counterbalancing element, treating it like a trick question even if it's not.

And so it can be hard to accept it simply is good. But that doesn't have to be the end of the conversation because that impulse can be channeled productively just by changing the baseline. Right to repair, I would think, simply is good, but since we need a bad thing, we can talk about the long road ahead to full implementation, or the effort necessary to overcome cultural inertia, as well as status quo extremism in our institutions.

But I think the right to repair itself is a good thing.

weaksauce

i’m more for right to repair than not but i can see unintended consequences of things like iphones being bulkier and heavier if modular components like batteries are required in the broadest reach of the concept. these bills may be narrower and probably are. that’s the ultimate question though is how far the balance should be.

CamperBob2

One drawback to consumer-rights laws is that we as consumers end up with less access to cool stuff. Some companies have chosen to stop selling into the B2C market altogether, to avoid incurring expenses and liabilities associated with conforming to right-to-repair and other pro-consumer legislation. Rohde & Schwarz and Keysight come to mind.

That is bullshit, of course -- just an excuse for companies to dodge basic business responsibilities, and a blatant failure on their part to acknowledge why consumers felt this legislation was needed in the first place. But it is certainly true that there are short-term drawbacks.

freedomben

Interesting! I think you're probably onto something there. Agree it's more of an excuse than a reason, but still there will be low margin products that have to go that direction due to the math.

I tend to think B2C is who needs the most protection from the gov since C are relatively powerless, whereas B2B tends to be more balanced, but the more I think about it the more I think that perhaps we're overlooking an important area. Nevertheless I think for now we need to focus on B2C and worry about B2B later. Can't spread ourselves too thin.

recycledmatt

Lawyers and lobbyists paid lots of money to figure out how to subvert stuff.

OEMs may work to make stuff less consumer repairable/upgradeable to force folks to use their repair services that need stuff like bga reballing or soldering. Bye bye upgradable ram slots!

Things like software locks and restrictions in the name of ‘security’ will lock stuff down and make repair harder (see Apple’s part pairing)

WediBlino

Wait a bit and you'll see what Tim Cook's donation to the inauguration fund bought him.

Frederation

A lump of coal if he's lucky

mschuster91

> Things like software locks and restrictions in the name of ‘security’ will lock stuff down and make repair harder (see Apple’s part pairing)

Unfortunately, I don't see an alternative to that given how juicy targets even locked phones were for "chop shops" before Apple introduced parts pairing. People were mugged left and right for their phones.

(Obviously the solution would be to tackle poverty, drug abuse and mental health issues, but that is even more unrealistic)

recycledmatt

Yes - but they paint with a big brush. Unfortunately legitimate repair and reuse is caught in the mix and made much more difficult.