Maria Montessori
48 comments
·February 5, 2025justushamalaine
pyrale
> Ludvig Von Mises
Not sure I would conflate praxeology and science, considering that praxeology is built on the rejection on empirical studies.
MichaelZuo
Since when does rejecting poorly founded empirical studies equate to rejecting all possible empirical studies?
pyrale
Praxeology goes far beyond rejecting specific empirical studies, it rejects the very concept of learning human behaviour from past data. Or, to quote Mises himself [1]:
> The subject matter of all historical sciences is the past. They cannot teach us anything which would be valid for all human actions, that is, for the future too. The study of history makes a man wise and judicious. But it does not by itself provide any knowledge and skill which could be utilized for handling concrete tasks.
He does make a difference between natural science and history, claiming that natural science carefully isolates elements in order to enable inference. That point would be thoroughly debunked by current AI systems, considering that by his definition these systems would be in the field of history.
Mises makes this distinction between natural science and history, because he can then claim that:
> The experience with which the sciences of human action have to deal is always an experience of complex phenomena. No laboratory experiments can be performed with regard to human action.
And since praxeology isn't simple enough to be criticized by natural science and that historical sciences have no say about current affairs, he rejects criticism from either field. This line of reasoning may have been tricky to attack in 1920, but it's completely obsolete in 2025.
[1]: https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/greaves-human-action-a-tr...
justushamalaine
I do think conflate praxeology (the study of human action) and Von Mises's preferred methods of studying it. Von Mises didn't hold any views on economics that wouldn't be acceptable in the mainstream and didn't really have any objections on mainstream economics during his lifetime.
I do really like they way von Mises broke down the human action and it is related studies. It is different to study what person should strive for (ethics), why people strive for something (psychology) and how people can attain the goals they have chosen (economics).
The understanding that economics is not science that can and should not do value judgement is a great contribution. Scholars are free to offer they ideas about ethics, but it is a different discipline.
On this background you should look with his criticism against socialism. He doesn't say that goals of socialism are bad. He just points out that tools and processes advocated cannot achieve the stated goals. And he had fairly great concrete criticism about socialism in his 1920 book "Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis". This predated the great Soviet Union and Chinese socialism experiments, which haven't proved him wrong.
Von Mises was not so advocating about creating theories that don't stand the test of real world. His aim was always to understand real world phenomenon. His rejection was about using tools that don't work with humans. Physics and chemistry are governed by constants like gravity, electromagnerical force, weak and strong nuclear forces that allow you to use advanced mathematics to study them and isolate these constants. Economics do have laws as strong as laws of motion, but you cannot find these the same way as human action is variable.
I do get same feeling about Richard Feynman. For him it seems that you needed to have a mental model first about a problem, before trying to model it with mathematics. [1]
You cannot progress without insight and you cannot have insight without interaction with real world. Theories only have value if they can affect actions in the real world. And there is a lot of ways outside of p-values how to allow that feedback from the real world to affect you. And this is something I feel that all of those people intuitively understood. :)
[1] https://thinkjarcollective.com/articles/richard-feynman-spin...
pyrale
Quoting Mises himself [1]:
> The experience with which the sciences of human action have to deal is always an experience of complex phenomena. No laboratory experiments can be performed with regard to human action. [...] Neither experimental verification nor experimental falsification of a general proposition is possible in its field.
> Praxeology is a theoretical and systematic [...] science. Its cognition is purely formal and general without reference to the material content and the particular features of the actual case. [...] Its statements and propositions are not derived from experience. They are, like those of logic and mathematics, a priori. They are not subject to verification or falsification on the ground of experience and facts.
Basically, Mises claimed that Praxeology brings prerequisite tools necesary to understand human action, and that these tools are axioms, not subject to being tested themselves. Praxeology is, to him, an algebra that must be true in order to be able to understand complex events such as economics.
I don't want to say how Mises would have reacted, but had he faced modern economics (for instance RCTs in the context of development economics) or machine learning, he would have been confronted with the fatal flaws of his theory, just like a time-traveling medieval doctor could not reasonably defend the theory of humours today.
[1]: https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/greaves-human-action-a-tr...
lotsofpulp
>Montessori's main contribution is applying scientific methods for education. She is first and foremost and empiricist that led over 50 years of field study on education. The Montessori method is just an outcome of that study.
I don’t see how this can be true considering the inability to create falsifiable hypotheses and myriad confounding variables. See the replication crisis.
justushamalaine
But falsiable hypotheses she created :D All of his writing and lectures are full of situations where her a priori held ideas didn't survive the actions of real children in the classroom.
She thought that toy and play would great rewards, when she started with the first casa di bambini in Rome in 1907. She had prepared toys and doll house for the children to play with, when they did an exercise she had prepared. Contrary her hypothesis the kids were not interested in the toys, but continued to do the exercises. She removed the toys as kids didn't play with them, not because she didn't like them.
This is something that she did through out her career. When she was managing and teaching disabled kids she noticed a girl that had hard time of using scissors. She then created exercises that helped the girl to master the sub movements that lead to the dexterity that allowed her to use scissors.
The material she developed is so full of the details that you can only see if stop and observe fully. Even though she didn't ran randomized controlled trials she was able to separate many confounding variables.
My point is not to say that Montessori method is the only or even the best method of education, but Maria Montessori has been one of the greatest empiricists of our time. She was a fully trained doctor and kept up with other people's papers and studies during her lifetime. And all things were tested on the children in her schools.
"My intention was to keep in touch with the research of other, but to preserve my independence. The only thing that I considered to be essential was Wundt's maxim that “all methods of experimental psychology can be reduced to one, namely, to carefully recorded observation." -- Maria Montessori
This is also the same feeling that I get from Richard Feynman's writings. He just got it where you can develop mental models and theories and when you need to expose them to real world.
ta12653421
Let me add some additional context here (source: twins in a private Montessori in a central EU country)
a) Montessori Schools vary usually - not only from country to country, also not only from state to state, but also within Cities
b) There are networks per each conutry, but you may join as school if you do offer different things than other schools in the same network
c) Within Montessori, there are a lot of "custom" approaches which are, at least in this country, usually discussed with the local government/educational gov
d) the comments with selection according to higher socio economical levels is a hard fact, at least in this country, since Montessori schools always demand some type of payment, depending on the income of the parents (on top of that they get usually partial funding from the local municipal/gov per school-people). At my kids school, 98% of parents are in a "good six digit range" (while the average salary in this country is mid. five figures, like ~49000)
e) my kids school is great, so i can only speak for this locatoin with their specific Montessori implementation: It is a school i wished i could have attended when i was young. Its great: Their building is quite fresh (note: there are some "parental hours" per year where YOU have to take care of the building for YOUR kids on YOUR OWN with the OTHER parents, this is 40h per parent-person in this location), they have a "everything-is-working-facility", not only rest rooms but also working IT equipment etc. (for which i have a special eye as HN user ;-) ), last years the built an additonal level on top of the building to install a free-range-roof-top and tennis area
Maybe this helps (-:
ta12653421
Also i want to add to digg a little bit deeper about the myth about the person herself:
While her teaching & educational approach is (in my opinion) superior to others, she for herself was also highly critized for some "specific behaviours/traits": the German Wikipedia article is telling more about these:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Montessori#Kritik
(interesting, that the english version does not mention any of these, or did i miss it when skimming the EN-version of the article?)
Nontheless: My kids like it and i perceive them as very happy, esp. there is no homework and they also have very good kitchen/cantine for the kids.
em-bee
interesting, that the english version does not mention any of these
probably because the critics all seem to be german.
it is also worth noting that the criticism is contradicted in the article itself with counter arguments and shown to be one sided or even baseless.
null
Waterluvian
I feel that the Montessori method is a lot like the Ten Commandments. You really don’t need a label or specific books or memberships to cathedrals of education to practice those principles.
I have kids in grade 1 and 2 so I’m getting to experience public school by proxy 30 years later and see what’s changed. I’m delighted to see that they employ a lot of the Montessori philosophy without once feeling the need to label it as such. Not that the label is bad. It’s just unnecessary.
yieldcrv
Sure, I just want a way to find schools using that method
I’m a fan of the sudbury model myself
mediumsmart
Schools and education systems are like Mail clients
some suck less
hulitu
> Scientific studies regarding the Montessori method are mostly positive,
... whatever that means.
Letting children choose their own way is good. It is, however, very difficult in the age of global surveillance, when every toy is only used to collect data about its user.
ericd
The Montessori toys are mostly wood in different shapes...
s17tnet
Families who choose Montessori school for their children usually avoid them have access smartphone, TV or internet in general.
Also, they are often in the wealthy, upper class so can enforce that kind on environment.
sigmonsays
curious why wealth plays into enforcing smart phone usage.
pkdpic
Before having a kid I never realized how powerful of a tool a TV or an iPad was in terms of (essentially) free babysitting.
Families where grandparents can afford to retire and / or move closer to their grandchildren are operating on an entirely different level financially. As are families where the parent or parents can work from home. As are families that can afford childcare which can easily cost as much or more than a mortgage in California at least. Even after public Kindergarten or TK becomes available these are mostly only half day coverage (again in CA) and you are completely on your own to figure out how to cover (pay for) the rest of the time if both parents work and there aren't other family members in the picture.
So in summary, I never would have realized that regardless of how much screen time you want your kid having the reality has shown itself to be that there is a direct correlation between relying on screen time and the financial standing of you and your extended family, for better or worse.
I was very lucky to have remote work when I had a kid, but my parents couldn't / can't afford to retire and that has had a huge financial impact on us. If I had an in-person job we would have had to rely a lot more on screens to fill in the gaps.
In any case no complaints I absolutely love having a kid and am glad to pay for good quality school / childcare and I don't really believe there's anything wrong with screen time anyway.
Watching 3-6 hours of TV a day after school while my parents worked and did whatever adults did in the 90's didn't seem to do as much harm to me mentally as I would have thought. It seems insane in retrospect.
l3x4ur1n
It's hard not to give a smartphone to a kid if you have to work or just can't spend a lot of time with the kid. Kids are demanding of time and attention. So either you have enough time or you pay someone to play with your kid or you have to endure a lot of chaos a kid without a smartphone and a lot of time without attention can do (from screaming and crying to wreaking havoc in your household). Or you give them smartphone and they keep quiet and still and you can do what you need to do.
walthamstow
I'll add another that my sibling posts haven't - wealthy parents are more likely to be aware of the dangers. Doubly so for those working in tech.
protocolture
My sister is out of work 50% of the time, her husband is out of work 90% of the time. Their combined yearly earnings are well under the median wage here.
They have 5 kids + 1 foster.
All have iPads. The eldest kid does double duty as nursemaid and has done since she was 7 or so.
Poverty = Kids iPad for me too. I dunno why. Its cheaper than childcare I guess.
GuardianCaveman
I think low income family parents have to work more, sometimes multiple jobs to pay the bills so the kids end up with more screen time because maybe they have someone else watching them or they're alone depending on the age. If someone else is watching them it's easy to just give the kid a screen and they're not as concerned as the parents about the long term effects.
Also if you're a kid in a low income area where maybe it's not safe to go play outside or you need constant supervision to be safe you don't go out much and therefore screens become the default indoor play. My kids have a big backyard they can go out and ride bikes around and swingset and spaces to dig and play and get dirty in the backyard because I make enough to buy a house like that.
sanswork
Wealthier parents can pay to have more free time to spend on activities with their children to the exclusion of screens.
yieldcrv
It plays into the whole package of keeping children occupied after the au pair has driven them to and from expensive montessori private schools
lotsofpulp
As far as I can tell, “Montessori” is just a mechanism for price discrimination, like “organic”.
We’ve gone out with multiple sets of parents who send their kids to Montessori labeled schools, and they whip out iPhones and iPads to placate at the first sign of trouble.
Not to mention that I can’t figure out what a Montessori school does differently anyway, other than charge a higher tuition, thereby selecting for a group of kids with higher socioeconomic status parents.
cycrutchfield
That’s because Montessori is something that any school or daycare can call themselves, regardless of whether they adhere to the teaching philosophy or not. You need to look at just the set of schools that are AMS or AMI accredited.
peferron
My kid goes to a public Montessori school, so the tuition isn't much. It's also pretty clear what they do differently if you tour the classrooms.
Maria Montessori is one of the few people that seemed to understand intuitively how science works. For me she is in there with likes of Ludvig Von Mises and Richard Feynman. For her there is no question how to develop things and every moment is a possibility to observe and try to understand.
Montessori's main contribution is applying scientific methods for education. She is first and foremost and empiricist that led over 50 years of field study on education. The Montessori method is just an outcome of that study.
So one thing that we should take away from her is that it is our responsibility to see and observe the kids and adjust our behavior and environment so that the kids can fulfill their potential.
"The first Right of Man, the Fundamental Right, should recognise the right of the child to be helped to overcome those obstacles which may hinder, repress or deflect his constructive energies thereby denying him the certainty of becoming an efficient, well-balanced adult." - Maria Montessori