I Conditioned Myself to Fail
26 comments
·February 3, 2025otikik
Aurornis
> One of the traits of ADHD is that our brains crave novelty
I know you meant well by your post, but this type of reductionism doesn't really do justice to ADHD and can lead a lot of people astray.
It's actually very normal to crave novelty. It's also normal to become bored with repetitive, boring work. It's not a unique feature of ADHD, nor is craving novelty a diagnostic indicator for ADHD. These are normal features of being human and not, by themselves, suggestive of ADHD.
I feel like this is important to highlight because the pop-culture definition of ADHD has changed dramatically in recent years. The definition has shifted so much that any description of feeling bored or seeking novelty is mistaken for ADHD, which is definitely not the case for the actual diagnostic criteria.
I don't mean to discourage people from seeking help from mental health professionals, but I do want to discourage people from self-diagnosing and getting tunnel vision on a specific diagnosis (generally ADHD) to the exclusion of other explanations.
otikik
Agree on everything. I must point out that I specifically mentioned “by a mental health professional” and I led with the fact that I am not one. I should have stressed it more perhaps.
codazoda
I am very similar to op.
What type of mental health professional should we seek out?
I talked to a PA about ADD a couple times, but dropped it because they seemed doubtful and I felt a bit ashamed (because you treat ADD and ADHD with a controlled substance).
I went on phentermine for a few weeks, for weight loss, and my mind felt absolutely amazing on that medicine. It’s apparently dangerous for long term use though.
I’ve written my own story; how to lose money with 25 years of failed businesses.
https://joeldare.com/how-to-lose-money-with-25-years-of-fail...
Aurornis
> I talked to a PA about ADD a couple times, but dropped it because they seemed doubtful
Let me add some context to this that isn't obvious from the outside: There has been a massive surge in ADHD self-diagnosis in recent years, fueled largely by TikTok and other social media. During COVID it got so bad that there were even pill mills offering ADHD diagnoses via TikTok ads, and anyone who paid their fee was basically guaranteed a diagnosis after a short 5-minute video call.
This causes problems for many reasons, but one of the biggest is that people are arriving to doctors with a self-diagnosis to the exclusion of other conditions. It's the job of doctors to look at the whole picture and explore other explanations, which can feel insulting when someone has already arrived at a conclusion.
There's a growing problem where people who are actually suffering from depression, anxiety, or even physical conditions like sleep apnea are self-diagnosing as ADHD and then requesting stimulants from their doctors, which temporarily masks their underlying condition and makes everything worse.
I understand why you felt shame, but if there's one thing I can tell you it's this: You actually want a doctor who questions the diagnosis, doesn't rush to prescribe habit forming medications, and explores the big picture. Having someone concerned about your health as a whole is very valuable.
> (because you treat ADD and ADHD with a controlled substance).
There are actually several non-stimulant ADHD medications. They can work quite well, but they come with one caveat: They can take a long time to show their full effects. There are studies showing that the positive effects of Straterra (Atomoxetine) continue increasing even past the first 12 months.
Controlled substance stimulant medications have the opposite time course. People take them and feel them working immediately. Within hours. However, tolerance also starts accruing immediately and people will often feel like the medications aren't "working" after a while, when in reality they've just reached steady state.
> I went on phentermine for a few weeks, for weight loss, and my mind felt absolutely amazing on that medicine.
I have to warn you: All stimulant medications will produce false feelings of euphoria, motivation, and excitement when you first start taking them. These effects do not last. The brain will adjust to the medication over time and that "amazing" feeling will disappear.
Your experience is extremely common, though: People take a stimulant, either from their doctor or from a friend, and feel great. They think that if they can secure a constant supply, they will feel that way forever. Unfortunately, it can actually distract from the true goals of ADHD treatment when people start chasing that short-lived feeling while neglecting the treatment of their attention.
The truth is that after someone has taken a stimulant for years, it no longer makes them "feel amazing" like that, even though it can help the ADHD. The brain reaches a new homeostasis in the reward centers. This introduces a secondary problem, wherein any missed doses or attempts to lower the dose produces a rebound effect where mood, motivation, and focus are temporarily lowered due to deviation from that new homeostasis.
In short: Don't read too much into how you felt while taking powerful stimulants for a short while. It's not analogous to the therapeutic effects of ADHD treatment, though it's easy to mistake one for the other.
atlintots
how has a diagnosis helped you?
otikik
I did get depressed for a while, which is a common comorbidity. Drugs helped somewhat. Ultimately sleep, diet, family, friends and sport helped more.
I am less hard on myself. My therapist helped me realize that some of the things I was blaming myself for were actually not my fault. I have some techniques to help me with some of my everyday struggles. I sometimes are able to aim my hyperfocus instead of just letting it point to whatever random thing crosses my mind - the trick there is realizing that almost anything worth knowing has some interesting nuggets, you just have to dig for them sometimes.
My son was diagnosed at an appropriate age (he has hyperactivity so it has been visible for a while).
pithanyChan
Druhgs. Dropped his dealer and got the Gustav.
I'm kidding. Once you know what, you can check your patterns against the standard and the deviations. Then you can approach the circuits that are fucked and identify triggers.
Best to get to the roots of the reinforcement in childhood, though. Behaviors and preferences surpressed, people you didn't beat up for reasons and so on, behavioral triggers, when you held back and why. What distracted you when you did a specific thing or the other. And, of course, the standard stuff, what were you rewarded for and did you really care about that thing yourself?
Might take a while but it'll be worth it.
inSenCite
Well, zero criticism IS a form of criticism so I don't blame the author for not being motivated after the fact. I'd even say its the worst kind of criticism because it leaves you with nothing to build next.
But I think they are highlighting an important thing here that most of us struggle with...building is fun, progress is discrete and clear, the feedback loop is very tight. Selling and marketing to people sucks, its clunky, the feedback loops are variable, and if you're inclined more to being an introvert it is very exhausting.
I'm not sure the author is conditioned to fail as much as they are just more inclined to build.
thesurlydev
First, thanks for sharing.
Second, as I read this and other similar posts over the years I understand exactly what you mean. Although, in my case it's worse. I've built lots of things and left it in various degrees of completion before making it public. Sometimes, I go back and make improvements but still never launching.
mlloyd
This hits home. I love the thrill of the build and I immediately stop caring once it's done. I love the 'rewire for action' perspective because I've conditioned myself that seeking information IS action. But it's not really, it's decision avoidance via constructive procrastination. And that feels amazing because it makes me more knowledgeable while also ensuring that I avoid any anxiety associated with execution. Gotta fix this.
HPsquared
This resonates hard with me. A huge list of partially-completed projects, work stopping right around the "boring but easy finishing off work". Incredible waste.
Edit: this is why we have teamwork and division of labour, btw.
ajkjk
I tend to believe that whatever a person ends up doing is what they at actually "want" to do at some inner emotional level (which they may not consciously be aware of).
So this person wants to build, but after releasing things to lukewarm feedback, wants to not work on them anymore. Why would they want that? Well, that is a pretty normal behavior I think. But I would speculate...
I wonder if this person is like me? Because they sound kinda like it. If so, I'd guess that they know that they're capable of a lot, so they're inspired to work really hard at goals, but that they're also mortified at presenting themselves to the world as confident and capable publicly. So they can work really hard when it's private and based on their internal self-image, but when it becomes public they have to reconcile it with their public embarrassment at who they are, and so they choose (in the sense of: their fear chooses for them) instead to hide and go back to working in private where it is safe. They are hoping for something else to happen: probably, they release one of their projects and it is so well-received, and garners so much respect, that they find a new public identity which they can step into and inhabit, allowing them to be proud of themselves and solving their inner problem.
I wonder (more analogy to myself): was this person bullied or ostracized as a child, and made to feel like being confident and proud in public was shameful? If I've guessed right I hope you figure it out (and then please tell me what you find cause I could use some tips...). I wonder what they want to have happen when they release a project? What, if they had to admit to it, would their most happy outcome upon releasing a product look like? Probably it will be sort of embarrassing to even describe, but the details are probably telling: they will point straight at the core anxiety. It will be a fantasy about the anxiety being cured.
Just speculating. But I would imagine that the explanation here isn't the real one, because the actual explanation will cause their behavior to completely change, instead of just building an intellectual edifice around it. (Personally I am very skeptical of any explanation that goes "because ADHD", because, what causes the ADHD? In some people it seems to be intrinsic but in lots of others it's clearly induced by something social. So is it fixable? Are there stories of it being "fixed" by solving the social issue? I dunno. But surely the goal is to somehow not live in this tension anymore: either fix the thing or let it go, and not be stuck in a loop of trying to get it fixed by some external blessing.)
CharlieDigital
> But then when I launch, I either don’t get much feedback at all, or I get a lot of feedback for a day, which then dies down completely after the launch.
The harsh reality is that most products fail and due to so many failed attempts, I kind of internalised that I’m doing effort for nothing.
But then whenever there’s a sale or a positive comment, I get another small jolt of motivation and I can build a bit again.
I'm the same way as OP, but I think this is easier to overcome if you build things that are useful for you or someone you know. Unless you're going to slog through tons of user interviews to properly validate your ideas, then just build it for yourself; build for fun and curiosity.There's nothing wrong with that.
Despite Garry Tan's advice, I ended up building a travel planning app (initially just for personal use). I shared it with Reddit and ended up with a few thousand users. It had a big peak of active users that's settled down into a small community of very sticky users; never a commercial success. What keeps me coming back to it time and again is that I use it myself to plan my trips and every time I take it on a trip, I learn something new and spend a bit more time tidying it up or adding some missing feature.
JusticeJuice
I just looked up your app out of curiosity, and realized I had just watched your video about react's inverted-reactivity model just a few hours ago! Small world!
CharlieDigital
Small world, indeed! Hope that video was useful/interesting!
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scarface_74
I’ve found that I like the thrill of designing a project as I get older. But not building. By design I don’t mean UI - which I suck at.
I have experience up and down the stack from requirements analysis and pre-sales, enough project management to get by, back end development, database, cloud architecture and “DevOps” [sic] and creating deployment pipelines. I’m not bragging, I’m just old (50).
I would have to hire someone to do any front end work except ironically hosted call centers.
I can do all that myself for a large project and for smaller projects I could simplify the “DevOps” portion. But knowing the work involved, I would rather lead a team at this point in my life and work with the “business”, project managers and people who want to be heads down.
Honestly though, the one thing I wouldn’t be good at anyway is marketing and sales and that’s the most important part of getting a project off the ground.
ph4evers
Very much relatable. I have dozens of high effort GitHub repos that I didn’t touch after launching it. For me it works by sparring with friends to really grasp if something is a viable long term idea or not and then stick to it.
tolerance
I’m starting to feel like yeah, dopamine and information overload have their effects, but I also feel like there is a certain point in life where people age out of “the extrinsic motivation force field” that insulates and propels young people toward adulthood and then leaves them once resources are reallocated to the next crop of kids who are primed to enter the labor market.
golol
I found the image at the bottom very surprising and enlightening. I wonder where it is from. It's really a new thought for me.
I'm not a mental health professional, and I don't know the author. Please be assured that I don't mean any disrespect whatsoever: consider getting tested for ADHD by a mental health professional.
I was diagnosed very late, since my ADHD was of the "inattentive" kind. I would not be troublesome at home or at school, like an hyperactive child would. A lot of people like this go undiagnosed.
One of the traits of ADHD is that our brains crave novelty, and that is definitely one of my struggles. Having professional help makes a difference.
> When I’m building something, that information is the thing coming to life in front of my eyes, every new button etc is awesome.
The neurotypical version of this is called "being in the zone", which just means "enjoying what you are doing, so holding concentration for long periods of time takes very little effort". The ADHD version of this is more intense, it's called hyperfocus. The activity absorbs all of your attention. You barely feel hunger or sleepiness, you can literally go a it for days, you keep thinking about it while you are not doing it. It's useful if you happen to hyperfocus on something that is helpful to you.