Avoid ISP Routers (2024)
209 comments
·February 1, 2025OkGoDoIt
danieldk
This is why the market needs some regulation. Here in The Netherlands, ISPs are required to offer free (as in freedom) modem/router choice. Not only can you replace the router, you can even use your own XGS-PON/AON/etc. SFP(+) module.
For a while I had fiber running through an XGS-PON SFP module in my own Fritz!Box. Now I use the provider's ONT (which is just a fiber <-> ethernet media converter) hooked up to a Unifi Cloud Gateway Max.
Plenty of folks here that have their UDM or OpnSense box hooked up directly to fiber with a Zaram XGS-PON module.
Also, I am sorry you have to deal with caps. Data has been unlimited here ever since we switched from 56k6 to ADSL. (I also have unlimited 5G for 25 Euro per month.)
stjo
You could also solve this with competition. If there were 10 ISPs it would be disadvantageous to give your customers reasons to leave you. Why aren’t there more ISPs? Maybe too many regulations. It is trivial to lay cable, except of course all the permits.
sottol
Or maybe it's an oligopoly where the incumbents have carved up the market and stopped competing, milking their customers instead.
Broadband is then extra special if you let the ISP also own the infrastructure as everyone has to reconnect their service to every house instead of one company (or forbid, the govt) owning the pipes and several companies competing for providing services over those shared pipes.
Imo the competition model doesn't necessarily (always) work that well for infra.
immibis
Because it's illegal to dig up the road without a permit and they won't give a permit to install new fiber when the road is already full of perfectly good unused fiber. They only grant one of those the first time.
account42
Here in Germany ISPs are also required to let you use your own router for free.
So instead of making you pay for that option they increase the base price and the provide discounts if you use the provided router. In the end you still end up paying more with your own router than with the provided one. And will probably have a worse support experience if there are ever any issues.
Do the laws in the Netherlands have teeth against such shenanigans?
tecleandor
Any recommended XGS-PON modules?
One of my connections here is 10G but I haven't tested any modules...
danieldk
Best to ask in some local forums. E.g. the Zaram XGS-PON SFP+ module is popular among Dutch KPN users. There is also some cooperation between e.g. KPN (Dutch ISP) and Zaram to make it well. Also popular is the Fritz!Box Fiber 5090, which comes with a module (though currently max. 2.5Gbit). For other modules, AFAIK they need to be set up with the right slot ID of the provider, etc. But the locals will know.
If you happen to be in the Netherlands, some of the KPN tech staff hang around on the Tweakers.net forums. They help a lot of users there who want to go down this road.
chaz6
WAS-110 is the one to go for.
Vilian
Same in Brasil
biglost
Manwhile i live in a rural area 10kms away of a little town in the south of Chile with FTTH with 1gbit symetrical with Static ip address really unlimited (no CAP of anytype) with one deco for my tv for 24 usd a month with an installation that cost me 30 usd. Should i add i hace to use rainwater because no potable wáter Is available?
polonbike
Same here (except Chile). It's weird/sad/expected because of Comcast & others that the US are still not reliably connected everywhere. From the country that brought us the internet!? In my (European) country, you have to live in a swamp far away from everything to not have FTTH legibility, in the same ballpark prices as the comment above. Static IP as a (free) opt-in.
disgruntledphd2
To be fair, the US is much less dense than a lot of Europe. Ireland has a similar density, and rural areas have pretty crummy coverage.
trimbo
I live in SF and Comcast doesn't charge me to have my own router.
I pay $130 for 1.4gbit and unlimited data. It's expensive but I also have no other choices. Sonic stops only one block over and we haven't been able to convince them to wire up my block.
jamestimmins
I'm so jealous of SF internet options.
In LA I pay $105 for "supposedly" 2-300mbit, but this week I've been seeing 30.
I keep looking for alternatives but haven't found any in my area.
dp-hackernews
I'm guessing a 5G mobile option is too expensive. In the UK I have a 3Mobile (Smarty unlimited data) 5G connection, using an MC801, for £20/m and I get around 1gb/100mb with it - until the tower hits a busy period, then it drops to about ~500mb/20mb
kimixa
I live in San Jose and Comcast shouldn't charge me for my own router, but every couple of months the "equipment hire" charge appears on my bill again and I have to go through the song and dance of calling them again and getting it removed.
I also pay a little more than $130 for gigabit with a 1tb limit.
I wish I had options.
joshstrange
Ouch, I think a limit would drive me crazy. I pay $110/mo for FTTH, 1Gbps symmetrical, unlimited bandwidth, static IP (by default you get CGNAT), ISP (MetroNet) provides the modem, and I use my own router.
For fiber is it popular to use your own modem? I always bough my own cable modems (Surfboards) but once I switched to fiber I didn’t really investigate it. As long as the ISP gives me a “clean line” out of the modem then I’m happy.
I use about 4TB of download and 4TB of upload a month on average so a 1TB limit feels incredibly limiting.
I’m in Lexington, KY which can account for it being cheaper but if you told me 5-10 years ago that KY would have better internet than SF/San Jose/etc I would have laughed in your face. I also can get 2Gbps/1Gbps for an extra ~$30/mo but all my equipment is 1Gbps max so I haven’t considered upgrading until I do a more general refresh of my network hardware. I think they have 5Gbps (not sure the upload speed) coming soon but I haven’t followed it closely. And yes, I realize I could benefit some from having 2Gbps Internet, even if most of my equipment doesn’t support it because I could use some of it over Wi-Fi and the rest of it hardwired. My eero does support 2.5Gbps, just nothing else in my house does more than 1Gbps.
That’s also insane to me, I’ve spent quite literally my entire life chasing faster internet speeds and always paid for the best plan available (aside from 10x priced business plans) and now I’m passing up a 2x download upgrade because what I have works great.
doctorpangloss
You do have a choice, it's Astound, and you're about to save like $1,000.
veilrap
I'm surprised by this, is Comcast super regional with it's restrictions? I have a Comcast 1gig plan in the Bay Area, and last I checked I get a small ($5?) discount for using my own modem. I've been on the plan for a least a few years now... so alternatively maybe I'm grandfathered in or something? Or maybe some Comcast sales person was lying to you about your options?
hackernudes
My experience in the Bay Area - if you rent the gateway from Comcast ($25/mo) then you have no data cap. If you use your own modem and want to remove the data cap it costs $30/mo, more than renting the gateway. The data cap is 1.2TB per month in my area.
I think that is what the commenter meant: "...unless I pay a whole bunch of extra fees or accept a stupidly low monthly data cap"
(edit: I initially thought it was $15/mo for the gateway + no data cap but just checked and it is $25/mo. They are called "Xfinity Gateway" vs "xFi Complete").
joecool1029
Tell them it's a home office and get comcast business. There's no data caps on any of the tiers and they allow use of any modem on their approved list.
clintonb
Competition matters. Comcast/Xfinity was my only "choice" in Cambridge, MA. It cost about $70 per month for 100Mbps service.
My building in Oakland, CA has multiple options, including fiber. The Comcast folks setup tables at least once per quarter to help customers/residents. The cost was much cheaper. I now have gigabit fiber from Wave, and pay less than I did back in MA.
xyst
You probably live in a zip code where ISP choice is an option l. Thus not getting bent like parent comment
phantom784
We we offered $10/month to use their modem + unlimited, or $30/month to use your own modem unlimited.
We actually don't use that much data though, so just went with the data cap and our own modem, and never went over.
This was in the Seattle area.
baby_souffle
> I have a Comcast 1gig plan in the Bay Area, and last I checked I get a small ($5?) discount for using my own modem.
Are you sure it's a _discount_? They charged me _more_ for "unlimited" data and own modem. This change isn't new (at least a few years) but a quick google found recent: https://forums.xfinity.com/conversations/customer-service/wh...
1123581321
It's not regional. The rental is $15-25/mo these days. You might be grandfathered in.
If you choose the $25/mo option, you don't have have to pay to waive the monthly data cap.
xyst
The crappiness of national ISPs is a feature, not a bug. ISPs have lobbied at state and federal levels to get their way. In many states, they have lobbied _for_ the ban of municipal ISPs.
Then between major ISPs they have under the table agreements to avoid competing in certain areas. This impacts all types of residential areas - suburban, urban, and rural. I believe it’s much worse in rural areas.
Why bother with providing good customer service or improving? They know you have no other choice.
Cellular networks functioning as ISPs have provided _some_ relief in this aspect but comes with its own drawbacks (congestion can get bad and you get throttled, and latency tends to be shitty all around).
The ideal municipal ISP I have seen is in Chattanooga TN. They (EPB) offer _residential_ customers symmetrical access starting at 1000 Mbps, up to 25,000Mbps. [1]
The 1gig plan is cheaper than GFi er and 2.5G plan is competitive.
Plus this money is kept within the ecosystem of this area. Creates high paying jobs. Profits reinvested into network rather than stock buybacks or some C-level executive that “super commutes” in a private jet.
1oooqooq
remember when verizon got a few Billions to deliver affordable rural access then pocketed the money and delivered nothing?
you ougth remember because it happened three times.
dijit
I remember, they took the money for delivering fast internet then lobbied to change the definition of “fast internet” to specs they already provided. So the government investment became profit instead.
anal_reactor
In EU the second poorest country has the fastest internet. The richest country cannot provide cellular signal to all of its area.
daemin
It kindof depends when a country did its investment into Internet infrastructure. More western countries did it first and are now stuck with older technologies that limit speed and capacity, where as the less modern countries put that investment in later and therefore have newer technologies like fibre.
Once an investment has been made it's hard to justify making another large investment, or if one is being made it becomes very political and captured by vested interests.
danieldk
More western countries did it first and are now stuck with older technologies that limit speed and capacity, where as the less modern countries put that investment in later and therefore have newer technologies like fibre.
This is not necessary. These countries are also very rich and can afford to upgrade infrastructure. I am in The Netherlands and have 4Gbit fiber. At the end of 2024 there were 8 million fiber connections, whereas there are 8.4 million households. Heck, even my parents who live in a small remote village can get multi-gig fiber (though they are happy with their 100MBit).
null
pimeys
Hey, we finally get fiber in the "richest" country. Telekom just wants to build it to our apartment, for free.
They just need a permission from our landlord, who said no way and blocked the fiber installation. We are stuck with Vodafone only...
I guess it is a better investment for them to smoke us out, renovate this place and rent it with three times more...
danieldk
Germany? We lived in Germany for five years and internet-wise it felt like going back to the stone age. We paid extra to get 20MBit upstream, but on Saturdays, you'd often only get 1MBit (more downstream of course). Cellular reception was crappy in much of the country (even inside larger cities).
We left Germany in 2018. We have unlimited 4Gbit synchronous fiber and unlimited 5G.
bowsamic
Ours blocked Vodafone too. We literally have no wired internet options. Our landlord just forces us to use their extremely slow WiFi
Also in Germany
anal_reactor
Why would landlord do that, besides "I hate you and go fuck yourself"? He's knowingly reducing the value of his property
s1mon
We used to be stuck with Comcast, but we had no trouble using our own modem and router.
We moved from lower Nob Hill to Russian Hill and were finally able to get fiber from Sonic. We went from ~300Mbps down to 1G (more like 750Mbps) and from $137/month to $50/month. Oh and it’s symmetric, very much unlike cable. So happy to get rid of Comcast.
esbeesbeesbe
Since you’re in SF, have you tried Monkeybrains?
Edit for disclosure: I’m a former employee, but I have no present affiliation with the company.
evantahler
Monkey brains is great if you can get it! Cheap and reliable and you can use any router you want.
pyuser583
The part about a cockroach colony is a bit unfair.
Insects love electronics, with the heat and noise they generate. And when electronics sit in storage for a long time, the critters can crawl in from neighboring items.
This is just as likely to happen with a non-ISP router.
Ok, in all fairness I don’t have any stats to back up that claim. But nobody else does either.
That open source router you love so much may have been sitting in storage even longer.
I have mixed feelings about ISP routers, and ISPs in general.
But insect infestation is a serious issue in consumer electronics and has nothing to do with ISPs.
Dylan16807
> the critters can crawl in from neighboring items
When it's shrink wrapped?
And why would a used device be on the shelf next to the new router I was buying?
You can argue this is "just as likely" with used devices, maybe. But if I'm buying a router it's not going to be used.
madduci
I agree with the take, unfortunately the new construction with Fiber to the home, this becomes less and less feasible, since ISPs expect to have routers with the fiber cable input as WAN port.
This is the case of Iliad in Italy.
In Germany you have FTTH installations where Telekom puts a mini Fiber Gateway in your home and an extra router dials with the credentials to access the internet. In this setup, you can use OpenWRT or other routers, rather than the Fritz!Box or the Speedport routers.
Dylan16807
As long as there's a reasonable way to get an SFP module, there's a good amount of routers with those sockets and I can get a gigabit media converter for $20.
pyuser583
Yeah I’ve seen the buggers inside shrink wrap. Only dead ones though.
baobun
It is not unfair.
The linked article is about a live cockroach colony in the package when it was delivered from their ISP. If that went unnoticed, what would you think about their supply-chain security?
If you get insect-infested packages from wherever you get your electronics, you should switch suppliers. It is not normal.
pyuser583
I’ve learned from experience to check for insects in all packages.
Letters too.
They’re usually not there. And there more often dead than alive.
But from time to time, the critters to crawl out.
joecool1029
I once got a Sprint magic box full of cockroaches (not a router but a sort of femtocell that used another tower for backhaul). Thankfully UPS threw it out in the snow and I didn't discover it for a few days so the roaches froze to death.
So yes, ISP routers and associated equip I do not recommend!
thowawatp302
If you can’t actually refute this then why say anything in the first place?
heffer
In similar news: The German regulator (BNetzA) just re-confirmed two weeks ago [0] that passive optical networks are not exempt from § 73 (1) of the TKG (Telecommunication law) which mandates that the interface between provider and customer is required to be a passive interface (i.e. mandating an ONT is already in violation of that). And that is fine. The different PON standards are reasonably well standardized and can operate in these standard modes for most equipment manufacturers. The NSP may lose some proprietary features, but the past has shown that equipment manufacturers have adapted for the German market accordingly. The law does allow exemptions, mainly if required for access technology reasons, but clearly states that even in that case the device that connects the end-user devices to the service (i.e. router) cannot be mandated by the ISP. They can provide one, but they cannot prevent you from connecting your own.
I do sometimes miss living in Germany.
[0]: Press release in German: https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilung...
jiehong
But internet in Germany is famously spotty and not great, at least compared to our neighbours the French or the Polish.
mixermachine
It's getting better. The situation is not ideal but very slow connections with <100 MBit/s are rare now.
wink
I kinda disagree with everything here.
a) non-mobile internet has never been spotty unless you were on an overloaded vodafone cable connections, those are infamous
b) 50 MBit/s is not "very slow" for any reasonable definition
c) enough neighborhoods in bigger cities and probably also in more rural parts don't have more than 100. I'd need to see some proper source for that.
martijnvds
I think there are similar rules (or there will soon be) in all of Europe.
Diti
Yes¹, but most European countries do not honor these yet².
____
[1]: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32...
[2]: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/router-freedom-tracker-...
denkmoon
Some of the comments here about ISP behaviour are crazy. Australia has had our fair share of fucking up the national internet infrastructure but at least I can pick pretty much any ISP and use any router I like. Haven't used an ISP supplied router in something like 15 years.
porknubbins
All over the US I have always been able to use my own cable modem and router. OPs situation is unusual, I am guessing its some bundle they have for a discount but if they were paying standard (ie ripoff) rates they could use their own equipment.
Terretta
This thread made me realize dslreports.com has "closed".
Used to be you could find out there what works and what doesn't down to the chipset variations. My experience was same as yours, as long as I matched provider capabilities, it worked.
WarOnPrivacy
> This thread made me realize dslreports.com has "closed".
Yeah. I saw it mentioned in a response to Karl Bode (TD). Sorry to see it gone.
I joined in DSLR in 04 and dumped more hours there than anywhere else, ever. It wasn't the same after the database crash in the mid 10s. When they shuttered the new-music thread, I finally moved on.
magnetowasright
I've never had an issue with using my own hardware here. It's definitely one of the only good things about australian internet.
Regionally is a total crapshoot as to ISP choice, in my experience. Even in the massive regional cities it's often appalling. People living in rural or remote areas might as well not exist. If I moved somewhere that only telstra serviced I'd seriously consider just not having internet at all. It's roughly equivalent in internet access as paying telstra but it sure is cheaper!
WarOnPrivacy
> Some of the comments here about ISP behaviour are crazy.
It depends on the ISP. Over 25 years of IT support I've had to fight with about 30% of them to bring in my own device.
Most notable screwery was with Verizon DSL. They'd lease a new public IP every time we tried an incoming connection. As fast as I could record the new IP in the remote config and reconnect - my IP would change. I was able to push it past six changes/min.
dbetteridge
I mean technically in Australia these days the nbn box is the "modem" for all intents and purposes, if you have fttp.
You don't actually need a secondary modem and can plug your pc directly into it, takes a lot of the pain out of it and reduces the need for ISP supplied modems.
Shank
AT&T Fiber's routers have, in the past, had a tendency to overheat, offered false promises like "DMZ Plus" mode and have had a host of issues that led to a black market of people selling stolen AT&T certificate files [0] on the internet so you could bypass them, because they use 802.1x between their "Router/gateway" combination device and their ONT, when they're separate devices. The AT&T XGS-PON network is mostly coupled now, which has led to another group of people now creating compatible SFP+ modules to replace the entire GPON stack because of this.
I could be wrong, but I think AT&T Fiber is the only US ISP that doesn't even allow you to directly connect to their network. If you use any of their provided routers, they only offer "DMZ Plus" mode that still leaves their router/gateway managing state tables, which is vulnerable to hardware and software issues from the ISP. This leads people down the path of programming SFP+ modules and spending a lot more time than they should have learning about ISP networking, just to have a safer router/modem.
[0]: Due to security issues in the router/gateway firmware, various people have published guides and/or run actual businesses shucking routers/gateways from AT&T by exploiting them, grabbing the certs and private keys, and then re-selling them to people who need them. These don't get you free access to the internet or anything, they just let you authenticate to the network with your own device.
inyorgroove
As someone who has done this I take issue with characterizing the certificates as stolen. I exploited a security vulnerability in the device's web UI to extract them, from a piece of equipment I paid for. Its my equipment the provider required me to buy it for service, I can do with it as I please.
I would be in agreement with it if we were using all this to steal service, we just don't want to use their unstable and unacceptable equipment.
smitelli
Having recently cancelled AT&T fiber service, their router (Arris BGW210-700) was definitely still AT&T property and they seemed to have every intention of collecting it from me. They had been charging $10/mo "equipment rental" fees for the entire time.
When the prepaid shipping box never arrived, I called them and inquired. The representative told me that, since it was 5+ years old, they didn't want it and I should throw it out as e-waste. I still have it in a closet somewhere.
Might be a regional difference, but in my case I never felt that the box was mine.
egberts1
I bought the same ATT router outright.
They'll have to pry it from my cold dead hand when I move.
Terr_
Oh, absolutely. Even on just that last issue of cost, buying my own cable-modem paid for itself long ago, compared to the "rental" cost from my ISP.
On that note, it's better to buy a router separately from the modem. All-in-one devices are harder to diagnose and you can't reuse the router with a different connection type.
deathanatos
> It may well be cheaper in the long run to buy your own hardware
That's why my ISP forces me to rent theirs!
Something something market dominance in one market something something force dominance in another market …
In the end, I just treat the network like any other: assume the network is compromised, and security is/should be done by the endpoints.
wyager
Agreed with the article, but to add to:
> The ability to update the firmware may also be locked down. You should have full control over firmware updates.
Bizarrely, for DOCSIS modems, even if you buy your own modem, the ISP has control over firmware! They can (and do) push any arbitrary firmware to your modem. The manufacturers go along with this for some reason.
So make sure to separate your modem and router too.
natas
Yes it's key to separate both, but regardless they know DNS queries + can see all http traffic and TLS handshakes will reveal (in plaintext) the name of sites connected to. So basically... they know very well where you go, they just don't always know (sometimes they do) what is being transferred there.
bc569a80a344f9c
Conversely, by using their router and modem you move the demarc to the Ethernet port on the inside of the router, which makes getting support significantly easier. I care about that more than control. And I know damn well they ain’t got time to spy on me. Just because appeals to authority are fun, I spent decades as a network engineer and then architect.
WarOnPrivacy
> move the demarc to the Ethernet port on the inside of the router, which makes getting support significantly easier. I care about that more than control.
> I spent decades as a network engineer and then architect.
As an engineer, you've no interest in hosting your own services?
bob1029
I'm in the same boat as OP.
I used to run my own DIY router setup for about a decade until I realized it wasn't adding much value anymore.
Anything that needs to be visible publicly I just throw on a VM in the cloud these days. Keeps my home network "normie proof" and calm. Anyone visiting can find the modem, locate the password and get online without forcing a 45 minute IT change order circus in my own home.
bc569a80a344f9c
Not at this point. Because it’s not _my_ service. This home network is also used by my wife, by visitors, and by my kids if I had any. Earlier in my career I was using home labs to learn and that was fine. Nowadays I really don’t want any more weekends where I had intended to do nothing or something not related to technology and find myself having to fix something that’s broken for others.
I’m fortunate enough to have fun at work, that may well be part of it.
yjftsjthsd-h
> And I know damn well they ain’t got time to spy on me.
What do you mean, "time"? It's automated.
anticensor
What if I want demarcation right inside the router?
bc569a80a344f9c
Telecom models don’t allow for this. Demarcs are ports. One side owns the port, the other side owns the cable that plugs into it.
anticensor
If only someone standardised a router layout with customer-owned and provider-owned modules and a neutral, state-owned, bridge hardware. Similar to how TVs deal with conditional access. And no, SFP ports are not a solution to this problem, because they only have 1 plug each side.
jeroenhd
My ISP sent over a Fritz!box (though they offered a "bring your own" option as well). It came preconfigured for my ISP.
I turned off remote access and TR-069 through a toggle in the settings, then changed the admin password. Really, that's all you need to do to take control of one of these routers.
There are good reasons to dislike the AVM routers, but their software is actually pretty solid in terms of customisation and network security. It's not a bad device, and the large scales ISPs can order them at they can be had for a significant discount as a rental compared to buying your own in a store.
protocolture
Thats one end of the spectrum.
One of my employers once ordered a pallet of Huawei routers. They turned up with a custom firmware provided by a different ISP. It was completely locked down, and only configurable via TR-069 and some proprietary Huawei ONT magic.
I also had a customer once that deployed a series of routers that were cloud managed only via the ISP. Not even TR-069 but they just did DHCP and phoned home via a proprietary protocol. Magic my customer said, he can just reboot customer routers remotely. The company that manufactured that router went bust 8 months later, leaving a bunch of preconfigured routers without a cloud portal and no path forward. Surprised I havent seen a DNS hijack published for them yet.
Shank
> Really, that's all you need to do to take control of one of these routers.
All major ISPs in the US do not do this, e.g., AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Frontier, etc. You might be right for some ISPs that are nicer, but this advice is completely ineffective for most US consumers.
blibble
as a note I've had a fritzbox turn those settings back on itself without my doing anything
the thing went in the bin the next day
Tijdreiziger
AVM/Fritz is kind of a ‘premium’ option, though. Most ISPs provide hardware from e.g. Sagemcom or Zyxel (with locked-down firmware).
fph
Can you upgrade the firmware when a Linux kernel bug gets fixed? If the answer is no, then it's not 100% your router.
mixermachine
There are some hacking tools for Fritzboxes out there but Avm themselves are pretty good at supporting their hardware for a long time. The 7490 was released in April 2013 and just received another security update (January 2025).
Quite a long support time.
To me they seem to be the best standard solution that can also be setup by a "beginner" user.
tills13
I run my own homelab and have a Ubiquiti gateway (UDM). I would have loved to have the fibre connection come directly into my box uninterrupted but the ISP's modem is required to associate the connection with my account (or something to that effect). Deeply disappointing.
newdee
More and more I see articles and videos about programmable SFP modules which can be used to directly connect devices like UDM to GPON/XG(S)-PON networks, completely bypassing the ISP provided ONT.
You may well find something that fits your situation with a little searching.
tills13
I have looked into it but I'm a little nervous to touch the hackjob fibre install they did and they cut the cable WAY short. I even asked the tech to leave cables as long as possible but
FWIW their box isn't bad once you put it in bridge mode. I have 10gig on my lan and 3gig to the edge and the connection is impressively stable at 3gig. I get 1 ping sometimes when playing Fortnite -- I'm on Vancouver Island. Comical if not inaccurate.
My only real issue with having their box is it sucks maybe 30watts ... Removing it would give me an extra 20 or so minutes on my UPS.
Havoc
That’s pretty normal for fiber. They usually want their own device at the end of it
WarOnPrivacy
> That’s pretty normal for fiber. They usually want their own device at the end of it.
US? Not Verizon/Frontier or the shared fiber networks. I'll need their ONT, if that's what you mean but it's always my router.
AT&T is another matter. I avoid them whenever possible.
tills13
Funnily or tragically enough I opted for the 3gig service from my provider and they require their modem however the same provider on the 1gig service supports using your own ont so long as you use their gpon / SFP whatever.
OptionOfT
But your UDM doesn't understand fiber, so you'll need the ONT.
Or are you talking about something like a Dream Machine Pro Max where the you'd plug in the fiber into the SFP module?
dboreham
Except as soon as you report some QoS issue and a tech comes out, they'll tell you that it's your off brand router and you need to rent one from them.
al_borland
They tried this with me once. I told him to get a modem from the truck and try it. The issue remained, so the excuse was busted.
That said, I have run into issues where the ISP will upgrade the speeds and it will be beyond what the modem or router can handle, and as a result the speeds dropped dramatically. In those cases, I did need to hardware, but was still able to get my own.
jandrese
You have to be careful with that too. I had a tech come out to fix what ultimately ended up being a faulty ONT and doing the same thing, hooking his test modem up to the line to make sure it wasn't my router causing the packet loss. Next month my bill was double because Verizon claimed I had a second line attached, apparently the tech's router registered as a second device. Thankfully tech support was able to reverse that charge, but it was annoying.
I wish. I own my own modem and router, but Comcast won’t let me use them unless I pay a whole bunch of extra fees or accept a stupidly low monthly data cap. I’ve got my router downstream of theirs which is a bit annoying, especially considering their modem-router combo overheats and needs to be rebooted via unplugging power at least once a month.
Sadly I have no other options here in San Francisco. My house is not wired for phone service so I cannot get DSL. The various fiber services that are becoming more available in San Francisco are generally only available downtown or large apartment buildings. My freestanding house can’t get any of that. AT&T‘s new fiber doesn’t connect to me either. And webpass doesn’t have a good line of sight from my location to any of their microwave towers so I can’t get that. It is Comcast or nothing. It always amazes me that San Francisco is supposedly the tech capital of the world but internet connectivity here is worse than rural China. (And that’s not an exaggeration, I’ve spent plenty of time in rural China and in the mountains there, both the cellular and hardline service is infinitely better than San Francisco, aside from the firewall issues of course)
…I guess that turned into a bit of a personal rant but holy crap how is it 2025 and this is still a problem in a major tech city?