Living with Nausea: My Story in Six Charts
89 comments
·January 31, 2025GlenTheMachine
So my kid has ARFID. I am not a doctor, but what I have learned is that eventually, anything that causes nausea associated with eating can progress into ARFID, even if the original underlying cause resolves. ARFID is technically an eating disorder, like anorexia, but it isn't related to poor body image; it is, basically, a food aversion to, well, food. All food, or nearly all. This is what happened to my kid; there’s an underlying disorder that can be treated with meds, but when not treated causes nearly constant nausea. Once we diagnosed and treated the underlying cause, the nausea didn’t go away. My kid's brain had learned to associate eating with being sick, and that association persisted even when the original illness resolved.
My kid at one point was admitted to the hospital for two weeks because said kid had lost so much weight. They inserted a gastric tube, and kid discovered that kid did not become nauseous when fed through the tube. We knew kid had ARFID, but this was ah “a-ha” moment for kid, because it showed kid irrefutable proof that the problem was not a physical issue with kid's gut. It was very clearly related to the experience of eating. Kid has subsequently learned to “eat through the nausea” as described in the post.
That's what this sounds like. There was likely an underlying physical cause of the nausea; that cause may or may not have resolved, but the nausea is now it's own thing. The OP indicates a series of consults with a behaviorist; I would imagine being screened for eating disorders is what that was about, but ARFID is not a common eating disorder, and may or may not have been considered.
mncharity
Fwiw: Strenuous winter activities (eg mountain hiking and camping) can more than double baseline calorie demand. Sitting down to a base camp meal afterward can be a body-has-a-mind-of-its-own saliva-gushing "FEED ME NOW!!!" experience of really-need-to-pee intensity. Normally unappealing food commonly becomes just fine - uncooked pasta, blocks of lard, whatever. So I wonder... what happens if food-is-nauseating is repeatedly hit with a hammer of the "are you going to eat that vomit, or can I please have it? - it looks quite yummy" of extreme calorie appeal?
Another thought is the breastfeeding maternal-diet envelope expansion drill, of working outward from some one bland safe thing, experimentally adding a thing at a time, and backing off upon problems.
dgunay
I haven't ever had a real eating disorder, but a lot of my childhood food aversions were finally broken during times of extreme hunger.
gcanyon
The absolute best meal I've ever had was a cup of clear chicken broth: my first meal after a month in the ICU without eating. As the old saying goes, hunger is the best seasoning, and as I always say, when you're hungry -- I mean really hungry -- nothing satisfies like... food.
wwilim
As plausible as this might sound, it's kind of "just man up and power through it" advice. They stated they often don't feel well enough to leave their house.
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stevage
Drinking pasta water is another thing that becomes totally appealing during calorie deficit.
FollowingTheDao
Your son’s serotonin in his gut may still be high. Please do not assume that the nausea is related to a psychological disorder. My parents did this with me and it turns out my case was a lot more complicated.
I don’t know if you tried antinausea medication that blocks the serotonin HT3 receptor but if you try that and the nausea goes away, I would look ant increased serotonin release as a culprit instead.
FollowingTheDao
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK603710/
"Research regarding ARFID is still emerging; the role of serotonin in sensory processing and anxiety suggests a potential mechanism through which neurotransmitter dysregulation could influence the disorder. Moreover, sensory processing issues, which are not exclusive to ARFID but are also present in other conditions (eg, autism), may be associated with abnormal serotonin function, further supporting the need to investigate serotonin's role in ARFID"
philiplu
Another parent with an ARFID kid here, though it sounds like our case is somewhat different. My kid, almost 16 now, has always had an extremely limited diet repertoire, starting at a failure to switch to non-smooth baby food as a toddler. Early on he exhibited extreme fear reactions to being presented with new foods. Nausea has never really been a huge issue, other than gagging if we tried to force him to try something new.
As he's matured, the reactions are less intense, and with a lot of therapy sessions, most recently with a dietician who also has ARFID, we've made real progress. In our case, that means he's (enthusiastically!) eating cheese pizza, scrambled eggs, and chocolate (but not white) milk, along with the bacon which has been his main protein source since age 3 or so.
Not sure what we'll do when he heads off to college in 2.5 years.
Anyway, if you want to compare notes with another ARFID parent, my email's in my profile.
e40
Sounds rough. I wonder if a prolonged fast would reset things, either the gut, brain or both?
wholinator2
Hey there, i have crohns' which isn't nausea based for me but definitely i understand the debilitating nature of gastrointestinal issues. It really just kills your ability to think, to talk socially, it completely and totally stole my adolescence. I'm sure you've done endless research, I'm not gonna tell you i have a cure. But if you haven't, you should look into gut microbiota. My understanding is that the balance of types of bacteria in the stomach and intestines has so so so much more to do with our daily experience than anyone realizes. And that any kind of infection or antibiotic regiment or just normal living can precipitate a change in the balance that just obliterates peoples lives. And we just don't know much at all about it yet. I've seen many people talk over the years about experimenting with different probiotics, even down to ordering exact strains of bacteria to make yogurt and test. If you need a new path to research and try things you can look there. As i said, doctors don't know much about it yet so it you probably can't find one to guide you through it. You'll have to figure it out, but it's possible, people have been helped, and at the end of it all, i hope it gets better for you. <3
spondylosaurus
Another Crohn's sufferer checking in—Visibiome probiotics are legit. They don't help everyone, and don't actually repair the intestinal lining (which is a must for these kinds of issues), but can definitely spark improvements. It's also one of the few probiotics with clinical trials to back it up.
binary132
Yes, I think this is an incredibly important area of research that has enormous potential to affect countless people’s lives for the better. My wife suffered from chronic GI pain attacks for years and now I have come down with an entire year of symptoms (that seem to be improving overall — but I still need to do testing, but have been avoiding diagnostics…)
I intend to try to do something to help people in a similar situation to what we went through when she was sick, but I’m not too sure where to start and haven’t found the time or energy yet. Siggi’s plain filmjölk seems to help…
Really important stuff
jb1991
If the author is reading this, might want to consider the possibility of an onset of chronic "silent migraines" which can have quite the nauseating effect but without the headache. I suffer from them and they are debilitating. While reading your article, I kept thinking it would eventually get to the part where you discovered you are having migraines (which also tend to run in cycles of a couple weeks to a month for many people, myself included), but no mention of this anywhere, so thought I'd point it out.
kqr
> After four hours, I should have had 10% or less in my stomach but in December 2023, I had 41% remaining, which indicated gastroparesis. [...] The second study I had in September 2024 showed 8% remaining, at which point my gastroparesis was considered resolved but my symptoms persisted.
I have a pet hypothesis that a non-trivial chunk of the "problems" discovered with medical testing are not actually problems but just expressions of the surprisingly wide variation in how humans work. Maybe this was just a thing that happened and not a condition that auto-resolved?
> In August 2024, I learned of a clinical trial [...] Ultimately, the medication didn’t have any positive impact on my nausea but also didn’t cause negative side effects.
Did you end up in the placebo arm, perchance?
borski
> I have a pet hypothesis that a non-trivial chunk of the "problems" discovered with medical testing are not actually problems but just expressions of the surprisingly wide variation in how humans work. Maybe this was just a thing that happened and not a condition that auto-resolved?
The reason this is a real condition is that it can cause extreme pain and nausea. Food sticking around in your body much longer than it should can cause it to begin fermenting, creating gas and other unhappy products, making you extremely uncomfortable and unhappy.
It is a rare side effect of GLP-1 meds as well, and happened to me, I’m pretty sure (the symptoms fit, and it subsided 3 months later when I lowered the dose).
To say it was debilitating would be the understatement of the year. I sat on the couch for 3 months, physically lacking the energy to do anything, and unable to intake the fuel (food) to fix that very problem due to pain and nausea. A miserable cycle.
kqr
I'm not saying real problems can't present with these test results! Clearly they can. I'm saying maybe these test results can happen even if an underlying problem is not there.
Maybe 5 % of days in a normal person's life would show slow food movement with no further adverse effect. That does not invalidate the pain and suffering in those who do suffer from it!
cfu28
Yes, that’s why in the medical field we often discuss the sensitivity/specificity/PPV/NPV of these types of tests, and how to interpret them
borski
Sure, in the same sense that an EKG can be abnormal on an otherwise perfectly healthy patient. This is why we treat patients, not test results.
geye1234
Absolutely, 100% consider migraines. Headaches are far from their only symptom, and headache-free migraines are a thing. Nausea is a common symptom. It's worth a try, and the medication is generally safe with few side effects. Consider talking to your neurologist or finding another that specializes in headaches.
Start with triptans (which your insurance may insist you do anyway), which are very cheap, and then try a CGRP blocker like Nurtec, which is patented and expensive. I get migraines, but nausea, depression and tiredness are far bigger effects for me than the actual headache (which is normally controllable with OTC drugs). CGRP blockers have been life-changing. It took them years to diagnose me with migraines, in fact I had to suggest it myself.
quackscience
I've had headache-free ocular migraines since I was about 13 or 14. Your typical aura/flashing/light sensitivity. They always are proceeded by some flash and then I know I have maybe 15 minutes before I'm in the middle of it.
Anyway, two things that I find helps. The easiest one is supplementing magnesium -- if I ever run out and forget to order more for a couple weeks I'll inevitably have a migraine. The other one is LSD or mushrooms. My friend is a science journalist and covered a group of people taking LSD for cluster headaches, and I figured if it was working for them it was worth a shot.
I still get them a few times per year, but it's way way less frequent now.
e40
I found my ocular migraines were triggered by my looking out the window in the morning while I brushed my teeth. On sunny days it was a lot of brightness to take in. Since I stopped doing that I haven’t had a single one.
quackscience
Yes, the change of light intensity is a common trigger for me. Either looking at a screen and then outside, or vice versa, or even bright led lights. But they've still largely gone away with regular magnesium supplementation and occasional psychedelic use (a few times per year).
pvitz
My migraines turned out to be related to my wisdom teeth. Once they were removed (for a different reason), the migraines stopped.
pfdietz
Abdominal migraine is thought to be what caused the nausea that plagued Charles Darwin through much of his life.
jastanton
I cannot believe how exhausting (and expensive) this investigation has been for you. I had a GI surgery and one of the possible outcomes was permanent nausea, and when I woke up I had nausea for about 3 months and it was horrific. The symptoms resolved on their own after a while, and for a time I believe them to be psychosomatic, so I began meditation. In the end I don't know, but that must be scary.
I'm curious if fecal microbiota transplantation has been discussed? From what I can tell the gut biome is under studied and the effects are pretty scattered and wide. Thoughts?
esm
I am sorry you are going through that. Really awful. Credit to you for tracking the symptoms so closely.
The cyclicality of the nausea in your graph is interesting. Personally, I find cyclic vomiting syndrome is underdiagnosed and exists along more of a spectrum than generally assumed. As others have said, there is often overlap with migraine spectrum and central hypersensitivity. An underlying trigger such as a GI infection in predisposed individuals can 'turn up the volume' of normal enteric nerve signaling. This ultimately describes a lot of functional GI conditions.
With central hypersensitivity, chronic pain, chronic migraine, and cyclic vomiting, one of the goals becomes resetting the sensory nerve volume back to a normal level. Meditation, therapy, etc., can all have a role. Often, antidepressants are often used at lower doses since they modulate peripheral nerves too.
FWIW, you may want to ask your current primary or GI/neurologist about cyclic vomiting syndrome and whether to trial a TCA (first line treatment, amitriptyline has the most evidence)
drewg123
I had GI surgery, and afterwards, I had an "Ileus" (intestines don't move food through), which is apparently a low probability side effect. I was utterly miserable for a week, with horrible nausea and vomiting. Even water. If my wife had not made me go back to the hospital, I'd probably have died from dehydration.
I cannot imagine living with nausea for months or years.
dillydogg
Depending on the risk factors (prolonged surgery, open surgery, opioid use, hypokalemia, NG tube placement) postoperative ileus is seen in 10-20% of people after GI surgery.
Not to minimize the terrible subjective experience you've had. I wanted to point out that it isn't that uncommon.
elialbert
that reminds me of the old doctor joke that if a guy comes in and says “i feel fine but my wife made me come”, you have to take it very seriously.
smittywerben
I apparently have a food allergy. I thought it was acid for years. It wasn't until I moved somewhere with much higher pollen levels that my stomach symptoms were way worse and I noticed the cross-reactivity. Usually allergies are faster but when it's not it the food makes it into your stomach and your whole body has issues. It's something I'm still kind of figuring out as we speak. Some people I think call it a mast cell disorder but I just call it a food allergy that I take Zyrtec for. Could it be described as "hives but in your stomach"? I mention this because you mentioned Dramamine, which, in fact, is also an antihistimine.
aaronbrethorst
I had (have) an undiagnosed gluten allergy, and had similar issues for a couple years until I tried cutting wheat and other sources of gluten out of my diet and felt like a normal human being again within two days.
smittywerben
You have to be careful with suggesting to cut out X/Y/Z foods. Said another way, I would recommend OP eat a bag of gluten and see if they end up in the hospital you'll have your diagnosis in 15 minutes and then there'd be no argument.
I'm not speaking about you specifically, parents get the cutting out X/Y/Z food wrong with their kids all the time. It makes people afraid of eating instead of afraid of what they're allergic to. Unless you maintain a strict food journal which I don't have time for why not just take 2x dose of Zyrtec (I'm just a happy customer) for a week, then try the gluten/paleo/soylent/steve jobs diet.
Edit: I am not a medical doctor and taking an antihistamine to mask a food allergy is probably dangerous but I'm still testing myself. OP said they tried Dramamine, which is an antihistime. I've taken that along with many antacids including Nexium and Pepcid which are also antihistimine. Maybe mast cell disorder is what doctors have to call it so someone with a peanut allergy doesn't read this and reaches for zyrtec and a bowl of peanuts and throws out their epipen. That's why I mentioned the pollen cross-reactivity because I think my body is just overreacting so I'm making the executive decision to suppress it. It's been 8 months or so, I've not taken a single Nexium, only a couple pepcid which for my family is basically cured. I moved somewhere with less pollen because I don't like taking pills all the time.
Edit-Edit (I'm really focused on this topic lately): The bottom line is that I reduced my cetirizine use from 15–20 mg/day to about 5 mg/day by moving to a place with less pollen.
If you're experiencing something similar, pay attention to any systemic symptoms and listen to your body. I had eliminated almost all food from my diet to control my gastric issues. But my left ear was having tinnitus. They checked it, they said my ears are very clean and thought it might be middle ear problems. They gave me a list of antihistimines and a nasal steroid (flonase) to try. I channeled my oppositional energy and thought, "Well, if they want me to try it…"
So I bought the entire list they gave me, I took cetirizine once a day, loratadine twice a day, and occasionally a fexofenadine pill (along with my usual double dose of Nexium, which I was desperate to discontinue) plus the Flonase for good measure.
I started cetirizine to manage tinnitus and dizziness, which are entirely separate systemic symptoms that I had never associated with my gastric symptoms or food.
A few days later, my ears cleared, and all my gastric/reflux symptoms disappeared. I quit all antacids on the same _day_. When my middle ears drain, that's my canary in the coal mine. It had worked so well that I wondered how long I had been suffering before I moved to Pollenville in the first place and just didn't notice.
Thanks Pollenville. You were my bag of raw gluten powder.
interdimensi0n
Is it same as the case + solution in this video w Forstall?
coolspot
That’s a very good and funny interview, thank you!
TLDW: Steve Jobs cured Scott Forstall’s chronic nausea by almost dedicating a wing in a hospital.
CharlesW
Actual TLDW (parent commenter might not've watched through the aside): Steve Jobs brought the "world's best acupuncturist" to Scott Forstall in the hospital and literally saved his life.
coolspot
It is impossible to watch only till the aside about dedicating the hospital wing without learning about the acupuncturist. Those two are connected. You’re not fun.
namuol
The emotional turmoil of trying to get help from the medical system with an unknown chronic illness can be just as bad or worse than the illness itself at times. I hope the author gets to the bottom of things and is able to find treatment or treat themselves.
nejsjsjsbsb
Yes when this happens you become a project manager trying to persuade resources you have no control over to get on board. And you are paying for them. And they may give you bad advice. And you feel like shit and don't want to do it.
You are alive. And your prognosis, if I am to understand correctly, is overall good.
This Sunday marks the fourth anniversary of my wife's passing at just 46 years old. She had unending nausea, and major motility issues. They also thought gastroparesis at first, and her doctor and surgeon even developed a surgery just for her, which I understand they won awards for. It helped her for about 2 months, and she started regaining weight, but her symptoms- unable to hold down food of any kind- returned.
From there things just got worse. G-J tube feedings with formula. Then TPN, which her body also rejected. And then... the actual starving. Her body refused any sort of nutrition from any source, even directly into her bloodstream.
Doctors essentially gave up. She was on hospice for quite a while. She had started off as a large woman and when she passed, she weighed about 55lbs.
I tell you this not to scare you or make you worry, but to make sure you're grateful for the health you do have, OP.
They never did figure out what was wrong with her. Official cause of death was "malnutrition." Right. Gastrointestinal mysteries such as yours, and hers, really underline the fact that as much as medicine does know about the human body, there is an infinite more that they don't know about it.
Best of luck to you.