Young men now spend more of their free time alone than any other group

80 comments

·January 23, 2025

daniel_j

At least for some of us, this isn't by choice. I have no interest in clubs, bars or drinking - in a new city. How am I to meet people? I keep getting told go to clubs and meetups. I found one boardgame club and went to it, it wasn't for me. Now what? I can't find a club of programmers or Linux users that meet more than once in a blue moon.

If you're in Melbourne and are actually into Linux/programming I'd love to hear from you. I'm tired of being 'nerdy' meaning playing DnD or video games, I want to mix with people interested in something beyond surface level.

If you can sense a hint of frustration in my typing you'd be correct

em-bee

you say not being able to meet people is not by choice because there are so few people that have similar interests. as others have pointed out, your interests may be to limited but the point i am trying to make here is that limiting your interests is your choice.

i can feel your plight. i too struggle to connect with people if they don't share my interests. but i learned to try to approach finding friends like finding a partner. i know that it is very unlikely that i'll find a partner that shares my interests, so i have to branch out and look for other things that may be interesting too.

you already looked into video games and DnD. but keep looking.

one thing that is important is to not give up to quickly. you will not connect to everyone right away.

what was wrong with the board game club, for example? the wrong people? the wrong games? try going there a few times, see if the games and the people change. but most importantly, be patient and stick through the awkwardness of joining a group where everyone already knows each other and meeting someone for the first time.

re video games and DnD, you may be tired of it, but if you are new to a city, it may be the way to get to know some people and learn about other activities of interest. move around, try different things. sometimes it is serendipity. i visited a friend in one city, but then i became friends with the landlord that i rented from, and a whole new world opened up that my initial friend wasn't connected to at all. keep looking.

forgotoldacc

To be fair, saying you're interested in Linux and programming is also very surface level. It's like saying you like art.

But what kind of art? There are some great slam poetry events. What about interpretive dance? What about tea ceremonies? What about abstract monotone painting done with watercolors? What about painting Warhammer miniatures?

It's a massive field. So is programming. It's possible to meet with a person who also loves programming, but if you like working on networking backends and the other person really just loves writing shaders, programming alone is hard to find a common ground. It's like a person who loves slam poetry talking about their hobby with someone who's only interested in Warhammer. When they find a common topic to talk about, it'll probably be anything but slam poetry and Warhammer. It'll be a different hobby, like surfing or making homebrew beers.

What I'm saying is, expand your interests. Try some things you've never even imagined being interested in before. You'll be surprised what you enjoy.

daniel_j

well obviously here I didn't go into specifics because this isn't my blog post or bio section.

I've tried board games and table tennis groups, it's at least something. I just found no interest there. I understand your point, for me it isn't easy to show up to something without a real interest or knowing someone. There's more to it than just deciding to go. I have to somehow get out of the door and show up, I'm not a very social person.

Contradictory I know. Until a year ago I was happy alone and never had a friend in teenage+ life, but finding someone I actually liked taught me people can be good.

thefz

My experience: I can name 3-4 people I know outside work that at least know Linux. Every other acquaintance I regularly associate with has been met either mountain biking or running.

I would never expect them to discuss alsa or systemd, and that is a blessing IMO. Gives me space to think about other things.

My best advice is to find some other activity that you love doing and start from there.

2muchcoffeeman

You stopped at one meetup? What are your interests beyond Linux and programming?

daniel_j

I stopped at one because I can't find anything else I'm remotely interested in. I don't particularly have interests beyond Linux and programming. I know that's limiting, but it is what it is

troad

Shared interests are a key way to build social connections. You say you're frustrated, but then you say "it is what it is" about the most obvious way to make friends. Your frustration sounds like the result of self imposed limitations.

Here's my 2c. Pick an interest that attracts the kind of people you want to spend time with. Immerse yourself in that interest. Go meet people who share that interest. Spend time with them.

Any previous experience with that interest is not necessary - you can be honest and say you're new and learning. People tend to love sharing their interests.

2muchcoffeeman

If you understand that it’s limiting, then I guess you need to try to go to the Linux meetups and if that doesn’t suit you, find new ways of being happy?

You’re not giving anyone much to work with. I honestly can’t imagine only having 2 interests that are related.

Hope you find some joy!

jayd16

If the goal is social interaction, just force yourself to do things others like. Maybe you'll end up finding other interests or striking gold.

Worst case you're hanging out doing something besides your favorite thing, but you're still hanging out.

defrost

Do you have any notion of what it is you'd like to do with Linux and programming?

Deep dark buried backend stacks in cloud infrastructure, or perhaps control a drone that monitors engineering or construction progress, etc.

cts1

Maybe you will find some fellow nerds interested in going deeper here: https://mess.foundation/

A creative hobby in which you could apply your programming skills perhaps?

bowsamic

I'm not sure why you are surprised your possibilities of connection are so limited when your interests are so limited

smogcutter

I mean, it sounds like what really fits the bill for what you’re looking for are coworkers or collaborators more so than friends.

Which is fine, and recognizing that might help you find it. End of the day, having meaningful social connections takes actually being interested in other people, not just a shared external interest, or hobby.

llm_trw

Two years of lock downs killed most of civic society. It used to be that there were several interesting meetups every day. Now you'd be lucky to find one once a month.

joshlemer

Take up an interest you can do socially and really dive deep into. For me, I easily made friendships with people after taking up viola and joining an amateur adult beginner orchestra. For you it might be rock climbing, or guitar, or maybe you could join a local crochet group if you’re into that.

I love programming too, and used to go to meetups before covid, but I think the music crowd for me has been easier to turn into a social thing.

tomohelix

I mean, this is like telling an obese person to just exercise and lose weight. Fact is, while it is that simple to those who are already doing it, to them, it is not that simple. The activation energy to the hobby can be immense and may require the person to change their entire lifestyle to accommodate it. For example, an obese person who suddenly exercise may come to work the next day worn out and less productive. They will also feel hungry and more irritated since they are not yet used to it and this can affect their social interactions. Eating becomes difficult and less enjoyable as they have to watch their calories intake and food type. Sleeping is harder with the hunger, etc.

I can fast almost everyday and I feel nothing even if I skip breakfast and lunch for the whole week. But I came to know many healthy people who hate to do the same to the point they can't do it even if they want to. Extrapolate, I understand what is easy and feel low effort for one person is not the same to someone else who is accustomed to the exact opposite. It takes more than just stating the obvious to help them.

cocacola1

But there’s really no way to get around it. Yes, you’ll have to put yourself in uncomfortable situations. There’s no one simple trick that’s going to mitigate that and trying to find a path that’ll get you there without discomfort is only delaying the inevitable.

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esperent

For me, the best way to meet people is exercise. I don't enjoy competitive sports, but there's plenty of non competitive sports and exercise out there, e.g. climbing, yoga, workout classes, hiking, cycling running, martial arts, dance etc.

You might say you have no interest in these, to which my response is: stop complaining and damn well develop an interest! Your body needs to be taken care of, and if you ignore that you might get through your 20s and 30s, but past that you're gonna start having serious health issues. So you can both improve your future and develop a social life.

Rather than just finding people in your narrow interest groups - Linux, coding, whatever - you'll meet people from all different walks of life. Some hyper focused on exercise, but mostly just normal people with a healthy outlook on taking care of their bodies.

pabs3

There are several LUGs in Melbourne/Victoria, LUV has no events planned this year yet, but MLUG has one very soon:

https://www.luv.asn.au/ https://mlug-au.org/ https://linux.org.au/lugs/

The Linux Australia conference (happening right now, in Adelaide this year) will often have local folks at it:

https://linux.org.au/ https://everythingopen.au/

daniel_j

I've seen the LUG group in Melbourne before but I put it under the category of meeting once in a blue moon. I want to find people _now_ that I can socialise with, not hope in 3 months I find someone at an event

pabs3

I edited my post to include MLUG, which has a meetup on the 27th.

zabzonk

Anecdotal, but speaking as a nearly 72 year old, I spend almost all of my time alone, except for my (fairly crap) carers, and my (very nice) cleaning lady/cook, and her little doggie. But I do feel a bit lonely, but I think I always have.

lemagedurage

I wonder if this is simply a transition to online platforms.

For example, this source reports 245 million monthly active Discord users in the US: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/discord-u...

hn_throwaway_99

Online platforms are not a substitute for real, in-person friendships. I forget the researcher who coined the term AI for "artificial intimacy": when you've got 1000 "friends" on social media but nobody to feed your cat when you go on vacation.

irjustin

well it's not to say you can't have intimate online relationships.

Plenty of WoW groups from back in the day.

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wiseowise

How many of those translated into long lasting, healthy real life relationships?

knowaveragejoe

I find it hard to believe more than 2/3rds of the US are active on discord. That can't be right.

rpmisms

Probably many of those are people from other countries using VPNs.

PhilipRoman

I really hate this style of headline (which is not from the original article apparently). It should go in the garbage bin along with "fastest growing" and others. By itself it doesn't tell you any meaningful information. Maybe "young men" are spending just a few percent more of their time alone than the next group. Maybe that other group started spending less time alone. The actual "problem" is that time spent alone has drastically increased, not that they surpassed some other group, and that's what the headline should say.

FearNotDaniel

I don’t know if the HN Title has been altered since you posted this, but the verbatim wording “Young men now spend more of their free time alone than any other group” is in the screenshot of the chart taken directly from the original FT article, so that part stands despite your own hatred of such a choice of words.

Whether that claim is (a) true and (b) significant, that’s a different question. However it seems that you and I are living in different bubbles because when your gut reaction is to feel the headline claim is false and/or meaningless, my immediate reaction is that it corresponds with ideas I’ve frequently encountered recently, that young men are finding it increasingly hard to form meaningful friendships and that some of the outcomes from that are an increased rate of depression, suicidal tendencies, violence towards each other and towards women, and a greater likelihood of being radicalised by extremist political groups of any flavour.

I don’t know whether my worldview or yours is more correct, the truth is perhaps somewhere in the middle, all I know is that if there is a possibility that any of this is both true and significant then it takes calm and nuanced discussion backed up by well researched facts and a willingness to try potential interventions as a society - unless of course research and not just gut instinct tells us: no, this really isn’t a problem, we do live in a fair and just society and nobody is suffering.

PhilipRoman

Definitely didn't mean to deny the problem. In fact, I agree with the article in it's entirety. My criticism was purely technical and applies only to the headline on HN. I've seen this trick used too many times to push various worldviews and I've started to look out for such statistical lies in media.

FearNotDaniel

I agree 100%: sensationalism helps nobody except extremist politicians, the media/tech channels that monetise engagement and anyone else who stands to profit from outrage and division in society.

lelanthran

> young men are finding it increasingly hard to form meaningful friendships and that some of the outcomes from that are an increased rate of depression, suicidal tendencies, violence towards each other and towards women,

Isn't violence towards women by the target demographic (Young American Men) the lowest it has ever been in human history?

FearNotDaniel

I don’t know, perhaps it is. If you have some data to back that up (or even a report from consumer media that dares to name its sources) then please do link it. My point above was that it’s easy to respond to such stuff with a gut reaction instead of pursuing research (which includes questioning the source, methodology and bias where appropriate). I’m currently too busy with my day job to go and research this in depth but hopefully the HN hive mind will produce a bunch of evidence by the end of the day…

akimbostrawman

headlines like this should only exist if the mentioned group actually is worth caring and socially beneficial to talk about.

lazide

So young men shouldn’t be cared about, and aren’t socially beneficial to discuss?

If that’s the approach, historically that’s how you end up with violent street gangs, out of control criminal behavior, or massive numbers of NEETs.

akimbostrawman

>(young) men shouldn’t be cared about, and aren’t socially beneficial to discuss?

They already aren't in any other issue discussion (violence, suicide, homelessness, jobless, legal, sickness, education) so at least it would be consistent.

CMay

A journalist recently wrote an article in The Atlantic covering the epidemic of people spending more time alone and did an interview to talk about it.

PBS - “The Anti-Social Century:” Inside America’s Epidemic of Solitude | Amanpour and Company

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz8KrZFhaxU

People have been talking about this issue for a long time now.

We know it's an important problem and it's not the first time community has sort of collapsed, but it takes time for society to adjust back to a balance. Whether we force a fix or not, after the older generations pass away there will be more opportunity and sense of purpose/meaning in reaching out.

When stability and satisfaction is relatively achievable without others, the required motivational threshold for putting in the effort to make connections gets higher. This compounds when some businesses, events and organizations that rely on strong socializing tendencies to succeed start to decline. Then those have to be rebuilt once people realize the problem.

The worry is that the internet and online socializing could keep us in a groove that limits the effectiveness of any corrective measures, reducing the ROI on initiatives to solve it.

euroderf

> When stability and satisfaction is relatively achievable without others, the required motivational threshold for putting in the effort to make connections gets higher.

Maybe it's something simple, like: the mind craves words - and expressions made thereof - and social media gives just enough of a fix that the restless mind is not driven to seek out conversations & encounters in the flesh. Shyness becomes self-reinforcing. Awkward wins.

llm_trw

Is this alone or 'alone'?

I remember in 2000-2006 spending a ton of my time with friends at a lanshop, because our computers were terrible.

It would have counted as in person time, but once we got better computers and internet we just started hanging out online with webcams and voice chat instead.

Nothing much changed apart from spending a lot less money and going to bed at a more reasonable time - the 24 hour discount was probably not the best for our sleep schedules.

jppope

Seems totally healthy and I'm sure no bad will come of this.

akimbostrawman

Don't worry if it gets too bad people in power will just start the meat grinder

OutOfHere

I am not convinced that it's unhealthy. Young people, especially males, can easily emulate a ton of bad behavior while offline, much of which is now avoided. At this time of the year, the viruses can be unforgiving too.

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ChrisArchitect