About availability of TikTok and ByteDance Ltd. apps in the United States
155 comments
·January 19, 2025daemoens
The app was shutdown a couple of hours ago in the US and this was the message all TikTok users saw when they opened the app.[1]
The same guy who pushed for a ban massively last year, is going to save the app despite the security concerns he and most of our government said they had. If only we knew what happened in that classified briefing that made them vote together across party lines.
[1] https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxbusiness.com/foxbusiness.c...
tivert
> If only we knew what happened in that classified briefing that made them vote together across party lines.
I don't know about any classified briefing, but TikTok publicly shot itself in the foot badly during the vote, though a hamfisted attempt to influence it. I think that was enough in itself to bring about bipartisan unity.
csomar
This is what happens when the process of law gets thrown out of the window and instead power is negotiated by people at the top. As someone who lived in a dictatorship -> democracy -> dictatorship, seeing tech CEOs pilgrimage to the Trump house, the US is critically close to turning into a dictatorship.
Andys
This is exactly what we saw when Sept 11 happened (over 20 years ago) and the Republicans decided to invade Iraq and carry out all sorts of extra-judicial mischief.
I started to think the world was going to end but its ticking along in the same manner which has now coloured my views.
csomar
States have a different (and significantly longer) timelines that humans. Even the Soviet Union "instant" collapse took years.
stogot
The 2008 administration under Obama carried out far more drone strikes & extra judicial efforts. Not justifying it but let’s not forget either
afavour
They’re massaging his ego and quite honestly it might be their best strategy. A whole lot of people out there want their TikTok back and you can bet Trump would love to call the press conference announcing that he, and only he, did the greatest deal and got the app back. Classified briefing be damned.
creddit
If you want another angle beyond "massaging egos", look into the Trump <> Jeff Yass connection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Yass
mrtksn
“Freedom loving Trump saving freedom of speech from the dictators that ban apps” would be such a boon for Trump. It’s amazing that the current administration set up such a scene.
mr_00ff00
Will admit, this is a big PR win for him if it works.
Especially since a lot of young voters / voters in general don’t see much of the impact of the president.
Him doing something popular that the average person can see seems like a huge win.
apsec112
More people support the TikTok ban than oppose it:
https://www.dailysignal.com/2025/01/17/americans-banning-tik...
mrtksn
He can even appear like fighting the anti-freedom establishment that tries to take away something they like and make people believe that any other legal troubles he might have later be of political nature.
DrBenCarson
This law was passed by Congress and upheld 9-0 by the Supreme Court
themgt
The TikTok legislation was included as part of a larger $95 billion package that provides foreign aid to Ukraine and Israel and was passed 79-18.
iykyk. Also this article from two days ago is hilarious, "congressional leaders who championed the law are now shying away from calling for the ban to begin Sunday" with Schumer, Jeffries and the White House all trying to pass the buck to someone else and try to avoid a ban:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/us-leaders-lawmake...
Reality is this was a game of chicken. American leaders wanted to force a sale not be left standing like a trophy hunter next to the corpse of one of the most beloved apps. Now the elephant is dead and there's no hunters to be found! We'll see what happens.
h0l0cube
And Trump so far is only offering a 90 day extension to find a new US buyer. The ban was signed into law late April last year, but they've spent much of that time trying to fight it legally than actually find a buyer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_TikTok_in_the_...
mrtksn
And?
FranzFerdiNaN
It’s amazing how you fully buy into Trump propaganda.
hn_throwaway_99
It's pretty clear the comment you are responding to was being sarcastic.
jakelazaroff
That last sentence is sarcastic, right? They didn’t like that TikTok was showing pro-Palestinian content.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/lawmaker...
silisili
I'm not going to pick a side, as I'm not versed enough in the history and nuances.
But I will say, partly emboldened by Massie's admissions, the absolute control Israel has over the US government is concerning.
whattheheckheck
You chose a side by submitting that comment due to the implication and probability distribution of the next thoughts that will occur in someone's head upon someone reading it.
null
stonesthrowaway
[flagged]
Isinlor
Ukraine war is very serious.
After Poland managed to collapse communist regime in partially free elections in 1989 where all elected sits went to democratic opposition the whole Soviet Union collapsed. Ukraine declared independence in 1991, all regions of Ukraine decided to stay with Ukraine in national referendum.
In 1991 Polish and Ukraine GDP were about equal, both countries have around 40 million citizens.
Poland immediately turned towards West. We rapidly liberated our economy - Balcerowicz reforms. We aimed at joining NATO and EU as guarantees of our independence from Soviets/Russia. After invading Poland in 1939 with Germans, last Russian soldiers left Poland in 1993. We joined NATO in 1999 and EU in 2004.
Ukraine on the other hand was divided between West and East.
In 2021 Polish economy was 3 times bigger than Ukrainian. More than million Ukrainians were economic migrants in Poland.
We made the right choice with turning immediately towards West with full force. Ukraine stumbled.
But they saw that Poland is doing so much better than they were doing. That's why they wanted to join EU. That's what started Euromajdan.
Now Russia is threatening all of us with nuclear holocaust. Every other month you can hear from the highest Russian leadership nuclear threats.
We have lost 20% of population in WWII started by Germany and Soviet Russia. Every fifth person killed.
We are taking Russian holocaust threats 100% seriously.
guelo
There was nothing in the classified briefing. The ban was enacted because their zionist donors told them to. Our government is corrupted past the point of recovery.
daemoens
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diebeforei485
AOC said there was nothing special in the classified briefing.
guelo
If you read Senator's quotes from the the time, for example here https://www.npr.org/2024/03/21/1239691465/tiktok-ban-bill-se..., all the senators are saying the briefing should be public, aka it's b.s. there's nothing in it. They talked about chinese collecting data and potentially manipulating the algorithm, just the standard public discussion about this. Halfway through that article Tom Cotton slips and complains about a "clear skew in pro-Hamas propaganda" which is a flat out illegal 1st amendment violation, censorship based on viewpoint.
AceJohnny2
Huh, I didn't realize Marvel Snap fell under that umbrella ban. I play that game during lunch breaks, it's a good card game with 2-3 minute matches, developed by Hearthstone luminaries (though it's never been clear to me what gameplay benefit you got from season passes, ie what their business model is. I was unaware of security concerns like TikTok that Tracks Everything it can)
Upon launching the game on iOS, the following message appears:
> Unfortunately, MARVEL SNAP is temporarily unavailable on US stores and is unavailable to play in the US.
> This outage is a surprise to us and wasn't planned.
> MARVEL SNAP isn't going anywhere. We're actively working on getting the game up as soon as possible and will update you once we have more to share.
I guess we'll see how temporary it is.
daemoens
Are there any other services or companies besides ByteDance affected by the bill?
diebeforei485
The bill specifically says "ByteDance/TikTok bad", and says for other companies the President needs to make a written determination. So in theory it can affect any other company based in China, provided the President makes that determination.
enraged_camel
How is marvel snap affiliated with bytedance?
freddie_mercury
It is published by a company that ByteDance owns.
Presumably they are switching to a new publisher and will be back soon.
1xdevnet
The game is published by Nuverse, which is a ByteDance subsidiary.
Lammy
No opinion on TikTok itself as I've never used it, but I hope this wakes more people up to the fact that they're at the whim of the app gatekeepers and makes them demand the ability to run what they want on hardware they supposedly own.
nemothekid
Note: the “app gatekeepers” in this context is the United States Government.
Lammy
Yes, and Apple's App Store is the mechanism of that control.
zhann_dc
Hey, in the EU we don't have that crappy Apple Intelligence, but at least we have alternative App Stores. :o) Governments can go both ways!
diebeforei485
The mechanism of control is actually the hosting, ISP, domain registrar, etc.
Oracle shut TikTok's servers down, because they didn't want to risk being fined a trillion dollars.
cruffle_duffle
Covid already proved that the government can yank your shit at their whim with absolutely no recourse on your part. It’s just nobody was paying any attention because they all lost their mind. Hopefully people wake up and see how little the government gives a shit about you or I.
DrBenCarson
Uh the law specifically makes it illegal to distribute ByteDance apps
Apple and Google are at the whim of Congress here
Lammy
Don't care; doesn't supersede my right to general-purpose computing
stouset
Yes, if you live in the United States, our elected government has the ability to supersede your right to general-purpose computing which is—as far as I’m aware—not in either the Constitution, the bill of rights, nor in later amendments.
layer8
Nobody prevents you from running your own TikTok locally.
DrBenCarson
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dvngnt_
can't relate since im on android
wodenokoto
Maybe we can update the title to reflect that its in America and not world wide?
DrBenCarson
Fair, done. Thank you for the suggestion
beeflet
There's a lot of debate in the media about whether or not the banning of bytedance/tiktok is an infringement of the 1st ammendment rights of users or if it represents a threat to the security of the country.
I just think that governments shouldn't be able to easily take down internet services like this. If it was just a normal web service with reasonably competent userbase, it could continue operating a hidden service over tor or some other mixnet. Instead, the government can effectively shut down the service by sending takedown orders to app stores and ISPs, which are naturally monopolistic and have little reason to stand up to regulators and act on behalf of their user's interests.
People have locked themselves into walled gardens and this is the end product. The town square has been privatized and controlled. Own your computers, people! Or someone else will.
notacoward
The US constitution prohibits bills of attainder, i.e. targeted toward specific individuals. The US has also decided that corporations are people, so the concept should apply to them as well. Therefore, by their own reasoning this is unconstitutional.
I have very mixed feelings about this. On the one hand I hate hypocrisy (which this is) and rarely hesitate to call it out. On the other hand I believe "corporate personhood" is absolute bollocks. I resolve this in my own mind by saying that the ban on bills of attainder can be extended to corporations and other entities without declaring them persons. Laws should be statements of principle, timeless and equally applicable to all, not one-off actions targeted toward specific entities.
russli1993
Tens of thousands of companies using Tiktok shop or other Bytedance services is suddenly in-operable as well. Jobs loses, layoffs coming.
The power of digital dictatorship, USA government can kill a company, the entire ecosystem, all of the companies, users, entities relying on the digital application and service with stroke of pen. Every country and person on the planet should have vested interest to reduce choke points that can be exploited by USA government. So USA government shenanigans can't just ruin the invention you created, your jobs, your peaceful Sunday.
dkjaudyeqooe
Closing TikTok in the US isn't going to kill Bytedance.
Every company is subject to the laws of every country where it operates. I don't know why you're singling the US out.
Ultimatley Bytedance is responsible for their own behavior and the consequences.
mr_00ff00
As a counter argument (and not saying this is right)
This creates a vacuum of time that Americans now can use on other tech apps. American leisure hours is a finite resource, in a way TikTok competes with Netflix, Meta, and even sports.
That’s revenue in other areas.
rf15
Ah, the great and classic play of "politician wants to insert his name into everything to get recognition when things get better". This is Modi's rice all over again.
tokioyoyo
Is this the first time we're getting a social media with no US-users? This is actually kinda interesting, as US-based content dominates a good chunk of international videos.
nradov
It's not the first time. For one example, VKontakte is a social network mainly used in Russia and has very few US users.
tokioyoyo
It doesn't have users outside of Russian. My point was it's everyone except US and China. Well, I guess it's not the case anymore, but it had a good run.
freddie_mercury
No, there are lots of them, including obviously all the ones in China like Douyin and Weibo but also Bigo Live, Zalo, and others.
tokioyoyo
The first two doesn’t have real traction outside of China. I meant like TikTok right now is basically everyone but US and India.
tasuki
> But they can’t be redownloaded if deleted or restored if you move to a new device.
Amazing news! It's a plot to stop people buying new phones, hence saving the planet a little bit...
Scoundreller
Going to be fun to see what an everyone-but-US social media platform looks like.
Twitter was fun for the few hours when it got hacked and they shutdown all of the "verified" accounts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Twitter_account_hijacking
Wonder how Meta's stock will do on Monday
OJFord
The smug replies you're getting are because Monday 20 Jan happens to be a bank holiday (Martin Luther King's birthday) in the US (so markets closed).
viewtransform
I predict with high confidence there will be no change to Meta's stock on Monday.
stonesthrowaway
> Wonder how Meta's stock will do on Monday
My guess is the price won't budge on Monday.
kurthr
Well, Tiktok is already banned in Pakistan, India, and China so that's over 3Billion people.
selimthegrim
It’s got 62 million users in Pakistan how is it banned.
kurthr
It's been banned and unbanned in Pakistan at least 4 times.
It is permanently region banned in China and India, and has been for years.
DrBenCarson
This has probably been priced in for a while
eddyg
TikTok users should’ve been posting/begging non-stop for ByteDance to sell their U.S. operations once the law passed.
That’s all the law was asking for.
ByteDance chose not to, and now everybody thinks the U.S. is banning apps “just because”.
Where is the “all ByteDance had to do was sell, and we’d still have our TikTokShops” outrage, which is where any outrage should be focused.
nradov
Why would ByteDance care what TikTok users think?
Related ongoing thread:
TikTok goes dark in the US - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42753396 - Jan 2025 (312 comments)