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Australian Open resorts to animated caricatures to bypass broadcast restrictions

DidYaWipe

Love it. I'm surprised they're allowed to use the audio, though. In the USA, the licensing notices specifically prohibit use of even "the descriptions" that appear in a broadcast.

I suppose they'll close that loophole in other countries.

The whole regime is a big F-U to fans, and to the taxpayers who subsidize these teams out the wazoo.

boredhedgehog

The audio of a tennis match is so interchangeable, I bet it could be stitched together from some standard soundbites on the fly if necessary.

* Racket Hit #12 * * Shoe Squeak #03 * * Audience Cheer #10 * * "What a great shot!" *

robertlutece

I believe this[1] 99% Invisible podcast episode talks about foley during sporting events.

[1] https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-sound-of-sports/

netsharc

That reminds me of the anecdote of UK radio coverage of a cricket match in Australia in the early 1900's, the broadcasters were reading a transcript (telegraphed?) and hitting the table with pencil to simulate the bat hitting the ball.

gcanyon

Ronald Reagan used to tell a story like this from his sportscasting days. In particular he mentioned one time the wire system was delayed, and the only way to keep the "game" going without possibly affecting the outcome wrongly was to have the batter continuously foul-tip the ball, and that time in particular "you've never heard of a player executing so many foul tips in a row"

jamesfinlayson

Came here to say this exactly! I remember hearing this story from someone born in the 1930s.

mapt

What about the grunting? Gonna need a consult with Pornhub on training that one.

Ultimately though, with the help of AI and some volunteers in the demoscene, we should be able to compress tennis audio down to a few kilobytes per hour.

randall

you can’t copyright facts. descriptions of the broadcast might be copyrighted, but stating facts of the individual events can’t actually be copyrighted, regardless of what the nfl and olympics say in their disclaimer.

crooked-v

This doesn't have anything to do with copyright. This is about contract restrictions, which would usually forbid reusing the same audio in a case like this.

stonesthrowaway

> but stating facts of the individual events can’t actually be copyrighted, regardless of what the nfl and olympics say in their disclaimer.

That's interesting. Does that mean someone could go to an NFL game and broadcast the play by play of the game? Stating facts like: "It's 4th and goal, mahomes drops back and passed to kelce for a touchdown". You could legally broadcast that?

mattclarkdotnet

Legally? As in do you have a right to? No. You accepted terms and conditions when you bought a ticket, and they will prohibit you from broadcasting. So it’s a breach of contract if you do that.

I do wonder what the intersection of that with viewing rights is. You can probably report what you saw on screen in real time because that’s happening in your home. But who really knows…

foobar1962

Famously, again in Australia, the ABC lost the rights to broadcast football final games to a commercial station, so two ABC comedians (Roy and HG) did a radio show where they watched the game on tv live and added their own humorous commentary. Viewers would watch the commercial TV channel with the sound down and the ABC radio station sound instead.

NhanH

The corporation certainly can kick you out of the stadium, but any law that can make such broadcast illegal is probably nigh unconstitutional in the US.

DidYaWipe

Only tangentially-related anecdote: I took my camera to a Dodgers game. To get in, you have to go through metal detectors. No problems.

I was sitting in my seat with friends, looking through my camera when a security guy came up and told me that I couldn't take pictures and that I had to take the lens off my camera. Of course I thought this was a joke and laughed in his face.

But no, he (and his buddy who also showed up) were serious. They claimed that my lens was TOO LARGE and therefore couldn't be used. I said well I went through security and they obviously didn't have a problem with it, and no fucking way was I taking it off my camera and leaving the sensor exposed all afternoon.

They grudgingly let me keep the camera together but threatened me with punishment if I was seen using it. And they seriously loitered around in the grandstand eyeballing me for the rest of the game.

It's incredible what people are expected to (and, sadly, do) tolerate now. I, the taxpayer and admission-payer, am being berated and abused for simply enjoying what I paid for.

josephcsible

I wish there were a law to the effect of "if a copyright holder lies that doing something with their copyrighted work is prohibited, when it's actually allowed, then the work in question immediately and permanently enters the public domain".

DidYaWipe

I don't think anyone said anything about copyrighting facts.

n144q

For once I think Google's NotebookLM could actually be useful for something that benefits humanity.

boomboomsubban

I like watching random sports on YouTube so saw this yesterday. I could only manage a minute, it was just bizarre. It did make me wonder how I could watch the Australia Open, but I wasn't willing to subscribe to ESPN to see it.

Not bad advertising really.

Eridrus

ESPN+ is $12 for a month via Hulu. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Finding this info is ridiculous though.

ANewFormation

Of your primary interests in life where would you rank ESPN+? Now multiply that by $12 to get an overall impact since presumably you would be willing to pay at least as much for things you value more highly.

This is why "just" $x per month is, in general, not a sustainable model for most things for most people and why 'piracy' is booming again.

mitemte

The Australian open runs for two weeks, solely in January, so you can subscribe for a single month. ~$12 is roughly the price of a single beer at a game. If you can get 2 weeks of entertainment for $12, I think that’s reasonable.

Eridrus

This is the sort of thing I used to think when I was a student with no money. Now I have a job in tech and I can afford many multiples of $12 a month, thousands even.

Neonlicht

Sports is a multi billion industry. You want to watch your favourite football team you pay up. It seems to be pretty sustainable.

apitman

Is piracy booming again? Google trends show interest in Bittorrent has been flat since 2017.

boomboomsubban

I have a low tolerance for paying to watch advertisements.

kjkjadksj

The way most sports works you can’t just get espn+. They might not license all the games so you are beholden to multiple services to get them. Playoffs are also a mess. Services know viewerships are up and rights are traded for specific games like cattle. It is the most anti consumer thing I’ve seen trying to follow college football. Easier to just watch it at a bar that pays into all of this.

indigodaddy

None of the good matches are on ESPN+ though

pedalpete

Doesn't this harm the long-term value of AOs rights sales to the broadcasters?

If I know AO is going to broadcast on youtube, why am I as a European broadcaster going to pay them the same amount as I did when they weren't trying to work against me?

tsujamin

I don’t think long-term value is their guiding star, if their previous NFT forays are anything to go by

yardstick

Yeah it very much feels like a case of biting the hand that feeds. What’s the long term goal of AO by doing this?

tomhoward

It’s weird how invisible tennis is on television in Europe.

I was traveling in Spain and Italy last year when Roland Garros was on, which included major highlights like Nadal’s (likely) last ever match there and strong performances from European players like Alcaraz, Sinner, Tsitsipas and Zverev (indeed almost all of the current top ten men are European).

But it was only on the pay channel EuroSport, which many homes (and thus Airbnbs) don’t seem to have, and was only available for us in one upmarket hotel in Spain we stayed in for an indulgence for one night.

So the tournament promoters may be making the calculation that if the current TV rights holders aren’t ultimately getting many eyeballs watching their events, they need to do other things to build/maintain the profile of the sport with a view to one day offering it only via the internet (particularly if broadcast TV continues to decline and the networks can no longer afford large rights deals).

null

[deleted]

Neonlicht

In the Netherlands we have moved on from using tax payer money for live sports. Public broadcasting shouldn't piss away millions on TV rights when the free market can do it.

zmgsabst

Survival amid viewer shifts away from traditional broadcasts.

The people who they sell the rights to are less valuable partners, so AO feels comfortable making them a less valuable offer while pursuing other audiences.

courseofaction

Is there a level of fidelity at which the animated character becomes an issue? Are we going to be seeing unreal engine powered photorealistic characters before this loophole is closed?

Does the rights holder have to specify that the motion data is not acceptable for rebroadcast?

On the surface this seems like a cheap abuse of loopholes and any broadcast partner would be looking at them askance and consulting contacts and lawyers...

numpad0

Animation bone format probably needs a redesign. Human anatomy is universally represented as a simple chain of sticks with ball joints at the end, which is good enough for many purposes but not ideal for closeup shots of muscular figures.

JimDabell

This reminds me of the voice ban Thatcher enacted in the UK back in the late 80s relating to the Troubles.

It was illegal to broadcast the voices of representatives of specific political groups (apart from during elections). Mainly Gerry Adams, who was leader of Sinn Féin, a party strongly linked to the IRA and terrorism.

The law was overly specific, so broadcasters, including the BBC, just dubbed his voice with a soundalike.

defrost

Spitting Image had a lot of fun during those days with puppets and voice actors.

Puppet Gerry Adams made a comeback on radio years later: https://youtu.be/vutbvLbRiMk?t=64

isodev

I would love to see a revival of this tbh. Everyone could benefit from not hearing or reading <insert rich guy that shall not be named> ever again.

alexey-salmin

Surely nothing bad can come out of laws impeding the expression of opinions

Ylpertnodi

The opinions were expressed, just with an actor's voice.

benreesman

I wish there was a browser extension where you you ad-block people’s voices while still hearing the news.

When shit like that works well by default with very little effort or downside? That’s some AI I can get excited about.

This tennis thing is so cool, I hope we see more shit like this where AI comes down on the side of the little guy.

rainonmoon

> I wish there was a browser extension where you you ad-block people’s voices while still hearing the news.

You're gonna freak out when you find out about reading.

antihipocrat

if (voter == 'left')

then insert(billionaire[0])

else if (voter == 'right')

then insert(billionaire[1])

else insert(billionaire[2])

let billionaire = ['Elon Musk', 'Bill Gates', 'Mark Zuckerberg']

cropcirclbureau

This comment is a perfect encapsulation of the ridiculously simple understanding of the political landscape that seems to be rampant among the tech industry.

enneff

I’m a leftist but not an American and I would prefer not to hear from any of those billionaires again, nor any others for that matter.

grajaganDev

"the Australian Open’s own channel has streamed select matches using cartoonish avatars of players instead of the actual broadcast."

LOL - but why not? They need to do this for every sport.

ascagnel_

They do, at least in the US, as viewership has dropped and leagues have struggled to attract younger viewers.

- The NFL provided a SpongeBob-themed alt-cast for a game last weekend -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcHIfPERX0s

- F1 has a similar graphics package+commentary for kids -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xUBfP2-BEA

- The NHL used their new-ish player position tracking tech to produce a real-time (or at least near-real-time) game themed to Big City Greens last year, and is set to do another in a few weeks -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCupuTnNmQ0

- The NBA has similar position-tracking tech, and used to animate a game on Christmas, with Mickey Mouse watching -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE68Q4oPcPs

teractiveodular

Then plug in another AI that maps the cartoons back to deepfakes of the original players, and the circle of life is complete.

nxobject

Instead of filling NFL game broadcasts with absurd amounts of graphics overlaid on camera footage, we could go the opposite direction and show minimalist renderings of live NFL games. Revolutionary.

scripturial

I assume eventually there will be an upsell product that allows you to watch with a 3D/VR courtside view. I’m kind of surprised it doesn’t exist already. I think Apple would sell a few more headsets if they made this happen.

Philpax

Apple are recording footage - there are immersive videos on the AVP for MLS and a few other things, and they're tremendous, but nobody is streaming them yet. It's a lot of data, which I assume hasn't been cracked yet.

In addition, the real end-goal would be complete 3D reconstruction that lets you view the stadium from any angle, but I imagine that's a few years away still - lots of technical problems to solve to create a scene and stream it in real-time.

YokoZar

Somewhat halfway would be a slightly delayed version of the game using much better-in-hindsight decisions about which camera angles to show during a play.

defrost

There's a startup here for someone . . .

Could even work for CSPAN, QuestionTime, and other political coverage ..

inglor_cz

Presidential debates... perhaps the viewers could even choose their favorite skin etc.

lostlogin

Get the favoured candidate to say what the viewer wants, and have the other person say the opposite. Then the system would then be perfect.

bdangubic

it is always two clowns debating so this would TOTALLY work :)

Fuzzwah

Monetize through hats and outfits...

edgarvaldes

Last FIFA World Cup I was looking for recaps on Youtube after the day's matches. A lot of results were unofficial videogame recreations (think XBox EA Sports FC) of the real match final score. It was very weird.

BurningFrog

Yeah, they were good enough that it took a while for me to realize why they seemed off. Creepy stuff.

zfg

Nothing like a bit of synthetic tennis:

https://cs.stanford.edu/~haotianz/vid2player/

voidfunc

Let's do this for baseball.. would probably make everything way more interesting

mopenstein

At one point data for every MLB game was available from MLB.com. I started writing a RBI baseball simulator using said data and the graphics from the NES game. But then I realized I'm not that good at programming but I still think it would've been neat to watch game 3 of the 1970 world series as played out by 1985 video game graphics.

airstrike

this 100% sounds like a project I'd see at the top of the front page on a Saturday

jitl

You can ask Claude / Cursor to do most of it these days

oplav

MLB does something similar called Gameday 3D. https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-gameday-3d-guide

The main difference is that it's rendered client side so you can control the camera for yourself. You can watch in real time during the season, the latency is around 30 seconds behind live action.

whartung

MLB StarCast generates ~7TB of data per game. I assume the bulk of that is video from the high speed cameras.

emills08

Speaking of brilliance, I'll do you one better. The feeds were also live-streamed in multiple languages using AI. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/akshat-prakash_watching-the-a...

nyjah

In case anyone is wondering how to pay for and watch tennis in US: there is a tennis tv app. That app allows you to watch the men’s tour. There’s another app, the tennis channel app, that is for the women’s tour and maybe some other random tourneys. Neither of those apps have the grand slams tho, ie the Australian open. For that , in the US you need espn plus and can’t get away from ads. And then there’s also the French open. And between nbc, peacock and whatever else, beyond pirating the matches, I’ve genuinely been stumped trying to pay for it legitimately.

I saw this the other day on YouTube and it made me turn on the real thing.

djtango

Not quite on the subject of sports, but in Singapore sometimes it's really hard to pay to stream/download random movies/shows.

Territorial rights just don't make sense anymore and I will die on this hill. The whole point about Netflix was that it proved that customers know what they want if you make it available.

We now have global-first distribution channels why is it still so slow to disrupt those old creeky TV players

tomhoward

The thing is that major live sport is now the only category that is successful in the broadcast TV market. Without that, many (most?) broadcast networks may as well shut down. We saw the best evidence of that recently in Australia when the Foxtel pay TV company was sold to European sports streaming service DAZN.

Foxtel has dozens of channels including the “agenda-setting” Sky News but in the end only its major sports rights deals (which it’s been bidding up and losing money on for years) held any value.

One day we’ll all accept that broadcast TV is dead and everyone can just have a personalized content feed streamed to them, but for as long as broadcast TV license holders keep up the fight, it’s going to be a frustrating endeavor trying to see the sports we want, wherever we are.

chii

> The whole point about Netflix was that it proved that customers know what they want if you make it available.

yes, but the media rights owners want the maximum money from their viewers, where as netflix model leaves money on the table.

It's why i almost always resort to piracy, now that netflix has lost a lot of their licenses for stuff as media rights owners start their own walled gardens.

djtango

Does it leave money on the table? Genuine question...

Would traditional media have been able to produce Squid Games? I remember Disney suddenly falling over themselves to "Me Too" that they did the Korean thing too.

I can see for certain things like sports where there's big money, but still seems like having "Domestic" oriented distribution management leaves money on the table. When you can broadcast to the entire planet what new opportunities can you get, will they offset what you give up under the old model

mbajkowski

This is 100 percent the truth. Watching tennis in the US has become increasingly frustrating. I almost long for the old days where one could count on one of two channels to always have coverage. I wish Amazon, Netflix, YouTube or similar would step up and secure all the rights from college to Grand Slam tennis.

mzs

And after you pay for ESPN+ if the match you are interested in is actually broadcast you have commercials interrupt game play. I paid for this once, never again.

nyjah

Nothing drives me more nuts than them showing commercials during the changeover, coming back at 30-0 and then showing the replay of the drama from what went down during the changeover.

When I watch a match commercial free, with changeovers, I find myself much more engaged. Changeovers can tell you a lot about the match and player and espn just ignores it and then has the audacity to replay any drama during the real points. It’s a travesty.

userbinator

I wonder if the relative acceptance of this has anything to do with the popularity of "vtubers".

wdutch

I think vtuber sports could be an interesting genre! Real displays of athleticism and sportsmanship but with digital effects to augment it. Maybe it's already been done, I'm not particularly in touch with online trends.