How did they make cars fall apart in old movies (2017)
108 comments
·January 13, 2025mrb
yowzadave
The one I thought of was the Silver Hornet from Revenge of the Pink Panther:
https://youtu.be/0z-FtAMg6Vw?si=zGsEnyt4NKtsMnLb
Even though I’ve seen many different versions of this gag, they are all still funny to me.
amelius
By the way, I always wondered why we got modern versions of the Mini and the Beetle, but not the 2CV.
kjellsbells
I guess the answer depends on which aspect of the 2CV is being replicated in the new version.
If its "outrageously small but can still take you and a goose to market", Citroën have a tiny little electric vehicle, the Ami, today.
If its "something simple enough that a farmer can weld the panels themselves", I fear those days are long gone, in the same way that the OG Land Rover Defender is no longer a car you can wrench on. The spiritual heir of such cars is probably a toyota hilux(?). Modern safety standards and the presence of complex electronics beneath every surface, to say nothing of the more complex sheet metal shapes, probably stop that idea in its tracks.
Cthulhu_
There's still simple cars being produced but they're aimed at the Chinese and Indian markets, same with motorcycles. Example is (was?) the Tata Nano (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano), at $2500 a very affordable and simple car, mainly aimed at motorcycle/scooter drivers.
foobarian
Well since we're talking about Citroen I'll say where is the button I can press to make the car raise up 20 cm :-D Always loved watching my uncle come visit in their CX. We'd always wait to see the car start and lift up.
AngryData
As someone who fixes basically everything until you can no longer tell it is a ship of thesis, I don't think complexity or safety features are the problem so much as not designing for or expecting someone to fix something in combination with extreme penny pinching in manufacture, so that there isn't enough material to anything for repairs to be done reasonably. If something breaks, the original material was at such a bare-minimum thickness and/or low quality alloy or plastic to start with that even the smallest defect in repair is a problem.
Its like trying to fix a single broken strand in a spider web, even with the tiniest thread you can find and the most delicate hands and tools, any manipulation of the web at all is likely to cause even more defects and any successful patch job will need to be way over-kill compared to what was originally broken. You can't just fix that one thread that broke, you gotta throw a large patch over the entire area and hope that the original spider thread designs that were undamaged will be able to hold up against your much stronger patch job.
iglio
There’s the Ineos Grenadier[1]
> The Grenadier was designed to be a modern replacement of the original Land Rover Defender, with boxy bodywork, a steel ladder chassis, beam axles with long-travel progressive-rate coil spring suspension (front and rear), and powered by a BMW B58 inline six turbocharged engine.
regularfry
The Hilux went the other way: you can apply wrench to nut, but the odds of you needing to do so recede into the distance.
guenthert
I thought one defining feature was the innovative front-to-rear linked suspension well suited for the poor road conditions in rural France of the fifties. Allegedly you could ride the car fairly comfortably across a freshly ploughed field.
Roads are mostly in better shape today, but in remote places of California there are still secondary roads where long-travel suspension is of benefit (partly explaining the popularity of pick-up trucks there).
doikor
For Defender there is Ineos Grenadier https://ineosgrenadier.com/
eichin
https://2cev.co.uk/ showed up on ev-youtube last year (but other than the drive train, it's going out of it's way to not actually be modern... the 2cv aesthetic of "you think a VW Bug is too fancy" kind of limits the options.)
andrepd
Well but the modern Mini and Beetle are related to the classics in name only, not in spirit.
dostick
Was one 20 years ago, Citroen c5 or c3 or something. Maybe still is.
amelius
It doesn't have the iconic 2CV look ...
potato3732842
Because the 2CV is mostly replaced by the entire crossover and compact SUV market segment.
af78
I'm not sure how to translate this line: « Ah ben maintenant elle va marcher beaucoup moins bien, forcément ! » (Bourvil reportedly improvised it, causing de Funès to start laughing and bow his head to hide it).
Google Translate: “Ah well now it’s going to work a lot less well, of course!”
Deepl:
- It's going to work much less well.
- It's going to run much less smoothly.
- It's going to run a lot less smoothly.
None of these suggestions sounds good to me (in case it isn't clear I'm not a native English speaker).
Terretta
The Google one seems dead on, except it should be gendered, native English refers to boats and cars as female gender:
“Ah well, now she'll work a lot less well, of course!”
Since you mentioned Google and Deepl, here's O1:
“Ah well, obviously she’s gonna run a lot less well now!”
“Ah well, looks like she’ll be running a lot less well, naturally!”
My own thoughts on google were replace work with run, replace it with she, and I wasn't sure about of course, versus, say, naturally. My own would have been:
“Ah well, now she'll work a lot less well, naturally!”
The context is that the 2CV driver is fussing to the Rolls driver who bumped him to make it fall apart. It keeps the Galois humor of a 2CV running well ever, and the naturally rhymes with that.
// English native, FSL here
colanderman
All four sound fine to my native ears. "It's going to run ..." is most natural when talking about a vehicle. (French if I recall does not distinguish "working" from "running" for machines generally.)
af78
Thanks.
While the primary meaning of 'marcher' is 'to walk', it can be used for machines and vehicles indeed. 'Rouler' is for vehicles only. Interestingly in English the verb 'to run' is used, suggesting higher speed.
The expression “to work better” is quite common but I don't remember seeing “to work less well”. And as I was taught that « plus grand » translates to “taller” but « moins grand » to “not as tall as”, I expected something more involved.
maxerickson
Something like "Oh well now it will run a lot less well, obviously." Seems like the more or less literal translation.
"a lot less well" is the awkward part, a more natural construction would be a negation "is not going to run well" or something like that.
4gotunameagain
Super impressive ! Thanks for sharing.
Similar (albeit a bit heavier from the all paperwork) explosive bolts are user for stage separation in launch vehicles (rockets).
moffkalast
That scene would've been a lot more impressive if wasn't edited like Liam Neeson jumping over a fence, haha
llsf
I also thought first about the 2CV in Le Corniaud (1965) :)
I had no idea that explosives were involved!
TacticalCoder
[dead]
wisty
For those who don't know, Keaton was amazingly dedicated as a comedic stuntman - a silent era Jackie Chan (he was less popular after the silent era, but kept working until his death in the 60s).
From Wikipedia: Garry Moore recalled, "I asked (Keaton) how he did all those falls, and he said, 'I'll show you.' He opened his jacket and he was all bruised. So that's how he did it—it hurt—but you had to care enough not to care." This would have been in about 1955, when Keaton (born 1899) was an old man and well past his heyday of really dangerous stunts (he once broke his neck during an early stunt).
And he usually had an amazing commitment to film in a lot of other ways. The first time he was shot in a film he took a camera apart to figure out how it worked, because he really cared about every detail (though in the middle of his career this really hurt him, as execs wanted to just trot him up in front of the camera as a high paid celebrity - they didn't want him wasting his valuable time fussing over details, or risk their investment letting him do stunts).
keiferski
Video of some of his better stunts: https://youtu.be/yOo_ZUVU_O8?si=1OEwZTk-d88ma2Zs
And a great Every Frame a Painting film essay on his work: https://youtu.be/UWEjxkkB8Xs?si=n-4ZNr_cMnYVKijs
He was truly an innovator that makes today’s “films of people talking to each other” look amateurish.
A few months ago the local theatre was playing Sherlock Jr. with a live band, and it was awesome. Try to see it in similar circumstances if possible.
PaulDavisThe1st
> He was truly an innovator that makes today’s “films of people talking to each other” look amateurish.
I feel you could have said the first part without attempting to critique films with a different aesthetic aspiration.
I just watched Eisenberg's "A Real Pain" last night, and there is no way that any of the things Keaton was good at would have improved that film at all. Which is not to say that Keaton was not an innovator .. just that there is more than one aesthetic goal for films, and room for all of them.
keiferski
I was comparing Keaton to a modern film that has people talking back and forth without any interesting use of space on film. This video explains it well:
https://youtu.be/jGc-K7giqKM?si=0sOBkBrsYa4IBo5N
A lot of Keaton’s gags and shots are similar.
exhilaration
Wow, those stunts are incredible - it's hard to believe he died of old age and not of these super risky stunts.
acuozzo
> A few months ago the local theatre was playing Sherlock Jr. with a live band
AFI in Silver Spring?
keiferski
Nope, other side of the world
smusamashah
All those falls, my toddler is going to love his films I guess.
exitb
> He opened his jacket and he was all bruised. So that's how he did it—it hurt—but you had to care enough not to care."
It reminds me of the glass eating trick by David Blaine, where the trick is to… just eat glass. It makes it quite bittersweet, as after all, those men are trading some of their wellbeing for some of their fame. Not sure how to feel about it.
thih9
I am also trading my short term wellbeing, if only for money - by working in an unappreciative startup; I suppose many others do the same, and even more would like to. My hope is that my long term wellbeing improves as a result.
exitb
That's true, although society generally does not applaud sustaining permanent injuries at work as dedication.
db48x
Men sell their bodies all the time. Miners, fishermen, football players, etc. 97% of all workplace fatalities are men.
null
krisoft
> He opened his jacket and he was all bruised. So that's how he did it—it hurt—but you had to care enough not to care.
I don't want performers to risk their safety, health and life for my entertainment. Obviously I cannot stop it, but I can stop watching those who engage in things like this. (And I don't just mean the stunt performer, but the director, the producers, the studio and the franchise.)
I have unsubscribed from youtube channels when I felt that they were pushing themselves in dangerous directions. It is not like that alone will stop them, but if I would keep watching I would be complicit in the harm which might befall them.
There is the principle attributed to Houdini by Penn Jillette that a performance/trick should not be more dangerous than sitting in one's living room. Especially when it appears dangerous. I don't know about the exact line though. Strictly interpreting the "not be more dangerous than sitting in one's living room" definition would disqualify any performance where the performer had to drive (or be chauffeured) to the location of their performance. And that would be a bit ridiculous.
josefx
> There is the principle attributed to Houdini
Houdini died from a rather trivial stunt he performed many times before. A hit to the abdomen before he could flex his muscles most likely ruptured his appendix. Keaton died of lung cancer well past the end of his fame.
You can manage the danger of stunts, you can reduce it and prepare for anything that could go wrong. You can never completely avoid it and sometimes a single error is all it takes.
krisoft
> You can manage the danger of stunts, you can reduce it and prepare for anything that could go wrong.
I think that is all I'm asking. Or not even that. Just saying that if they don't, i don't want to watch it.
> Houdini died from a rather trivial stunt he performed many times before.
The blows which allegedly killed Houdini were not suffered during a performance or stunt.
gigaflop
There's a youtube channel out there that used to be a sort of nature channel, but seems to have devolved into 'Get stung/bit by painful animal X'. I haven't watched their stuff in ages, but I'm very aware that the original channel host isn't the one getting stung anymore. I have to wonder what it was like from their perspective, watching the view counts go up and up with each successive "Hurt yourself on camera" video, and wondering what to do next.
astura
>There's a youtube channel out there that used to be a sort of nature channel, but seems to have devolved into 'Get stung/bit by painful animal X'. I haven't watched their stuff in ages, but I'm very aware that the original channel host isn't the one getting stung anymore.
Brave Wilderness?
Fricken
I'm a rock climber. There are many people out there who take wild and unnecessary risks on a regular basis for no accolades whatsoever, out in the middle of nowhere where no one can see them, and they don't tell anybody about it aftwerwards. However, if they want to do it for my entertainment that's fine too.
crazygringo
> I don't want performers to risk their safety, health and life for my entertainment.
I mean, they pretty much all do to some degree. It's not healthy on your body to do eight Broadway shows a week. Or to be constantly switching between all-day and all-night shoots on a TV show. And performing a role of high emotional trauma every day for weeks or months takes its own kind of toll too.
Obviously nobody should be at risk of life or of permanent injury, that goes without saying.
But getting bruises while doing stunts, that's just what being a stuntperson is. Nobody is forced into it. And this is why there are stuntpeople in the first place -- it's not just for skills. Sometimes the regular actor could do it fine, but there's no time in the schedule for their body to recover afterwards.
krisoft
> Nobody is forced into it.
And i’m not forced to watch it. So all is fair.
BiteCode_dev
[flagged]
krisoft
> Then you have to stop watching any competition of anything
Done. Easy.
> stop reading about start up on HN as well
I don’t think there the motivation is to create entertainment though. But i don’t care much about that kind of content either.
> forget about any extra ordinnary human achivement
I disagree with that. Plenty of extraordinary human achievements were created under circumstances I find acceptable to celebrate and watch.
draven
I saw a Jackie Chan interview years ago (20 or so) in which he said Keaton was an inspiration.
adamc
You can see some classic Keaton in "A Funny thing Happened on the Way to the Forum". He remained great, even as an old man.
throw4847285
Wow, I completely forgot that he played Erronius. Every time I think about the way he says "stolen in infancy by pirates" in that gravelly voices of his I have to stifle a laugh.
vodou
Here is the stunt where he broke his neck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOo_ZUVU_O8&t=187s
ErigmolCt
His dedication was truly next-level
hilbert42
Those reasons seem to make sense but I'd say just as much has to do with Buster Keaton himself, he had nerves of steel.
During the filming of the Civil War movie The General there are images of Keaton doing things that even the bravest of stuntmen wouldn't do these days and we'd now rely on film animation and tricks to make the scenes work.
For instance, Keaton—who obviously was very fit and agile—is filmed sitting on a cowcatcher of a moving locomotive whilst removing rail ties that were placed on the line to impede the train's progress and then tossing them aside.
I read somewhere that Clyde Bruckman the film's director gave instructions to the cameraman "to keep filming the scene until finished or until Keaton is killed" or words to that effect.
I can't remember whether Bruckman was referring to this scene or another such as when he's running across the locomotive's tender (the comment could equally have applied to many other scenes I reckon). Others who are more knowledgeable could perhaps fill in the details.
I like this movie, Keaton was a great performer and his movies are a testament to that.
ggm
My favourite Keaton movie is the one near his end where he goes across Canada by hand crank car on rail roads.
"The railrodder" (1965)
Kenton died 1966
hilbert42
Yeah, I came across that one by sheer accident some years back. It was such a surprise. Now you've reminded me of it I'll watch it again. :-)
mkl
I found the movie interesting in that they managed to make the Confederates the good guys by simply never showing a Black person on screen or mentioning slavery. There were a few good stunts and it was worth watching as a historical curiosity, but I didn't think it was all that good as a movie. I'm not American, so may have missed some things that would have let me follow the story better.
hilbert42
I'm not an American either so I've not a patriotic fervor over the outcome of the Civil War to the extent as that most Americans have.
That the movie showed the Confederates in better light than the Yankees wasn't appreciated much when it was released. Back then, there were Civil War veterans who were still alive who criticized the film which contributed to its poor ratings. Also, keep in mind the film was based on the story The Great Locomotive Chase, changing it to having the Yankees as the main subject just wouldn't have been feasible.
Nevertheless, the film's stature has grown over the years and has developed a bit of a cult status:
https://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/the_general_film...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_(1926_film) (read 'Legacy')
Oh, and I just noticed on the Wiki page there's even an image of Keaton riding the cowcatcher.
I'm not a film buff so I'll let those comments/reviews stand on their own merits.
saalweachter
Some context for non-Americans: the 1920s (when the film was released) was the hey-day of Civil War revisionism; that was when most of the statues of Confederate generals were erected and the narrative of the noble Confederates was written. "1920s film made Confederates the good guys" is one of the least surprising things ever.
nejsjsjsbsb
The entire film is embedded on the wiki page. Public domain is cool!
throw4847285
I recommend listening to the episode of the Blank Check podcast about The General (and Battling Butler), if you can sanction some buffoonery. It's a mix of a comedy podcast and deep movie analysis, which is not for everybody. For that episode they brought in writer Jamelle Bouie who is both a huge movie buff and a student of American history who brings in some great perspective on the Lost Cause.
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/battling-butler-the-ge...
hilbert42
Have started listening to it, thanks.
db48x
It’s a comedy; the sides don’t matter. It’s a hilarious movie, in fact.
watersb
I'm surprised there's no mention yet of the incredible scene from the 1980 film "The Blues Brothers".
https://youtu.be/QfN1GRqKXpM?si=-4Mwmipl5sCFtCWN
This practical effect took weeks to set up.
I can't find documentation specifying any special techniques used to create this version of the car. I recall reading an interview naming the builder who set it up, and how no one on set was allowed to touch it except the actors, John Belushi and Dan Ackroyd. Only one take. Can't find that interview now.
blululu
I remember watching that movie recently and seeing that the cast was almost half stuntmen. The fact that the Chicago police basically gave them free range and unlimited extras also made a lot of things possible. The final chase scene is about 15 minutes of car crashes including the one where the neonazis fly off the bridge and the camera jump cuts to the car dropped from an airplane into Lake Michigan. https://youtu.be/FD9N7v5qGig?si=p-QYJSkkYJIlN3b4&t=110
gregoriol
It's a very nice scene, but not as good as the 2CV from Le Corniaud.
Also looking at it closely, you can see at the camera angle change that the car is not the same (roof shape cut, rear door a bit open, ...), and that it is not standing on its wheels with supports appearing below
Cumpiler69
>This practical effect took weeks to set up.
Today that's replaced by crappy CGI done on a crunch by a sweatshop.
lenerdenator
takes off hat
csours
"The only secret of magic is I'm willing to work harder on it than you think it's worth" - Penn Jillette
wisty
Spending more time and effort than other people are willing to do works in a number of fields.
vodou
I love Buster Keaton. For me he might be the greatest performer ever.
I actually watched the video linked in the comments with his greatest stunts and also one short movie together with my kids (5 and 8 years old) just the other day. They laughed their heads off!
So if you can hear me, Buster, wherever you are: Your films are holding up a hundred years later. That is quite a feat.
sandworm101
Much of these tricks comes from how cars used to be constructed. Without any concept of safety cages, they were basically a bunch of very light structures secured atop a heavy metal frame. So long as the actor remains on the seat above the frame, they are in a falling house of cards. Today we build the frames around the people. Pull such a stunt in a modern car and you will be trapped amongst twisted metal rails.
Cars were also much simpler to take apart. A few bolts here and there and a couple people could remove an engine. A few more and the roof came off too. Today, it is all spot welded and tight tollerances. Removing any substanial part of a modern car, anything beyond the seats, requires planning and specialized tools.
OuterVale
This made me think of the scene in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang when Lionel Jeffries is captured and forced to convert a car into the titular phantasmagorical fuel-burning oracle. I was wondering just the other day how they achieved that effect.
Wonderful little read. Thanks!
ErigmolCt
It’s hard to believe they could make cars fall apart so perfectly without the tech we have today.
monkeymeister
This is both engineering and art. Magnificent.
ErigmolCt
They didn’t just build cars to fall apart... they choreographed it like a performance
radar1310
Kinda looks like the Michael Waltrip 1990 crash at Bristol in the NASCAR race.it’s on YT, look it up.
null
I immediately assumed this article was about the French movie Le Corniaud (1965) in which a 2CV falls apart in 250 pieces in an accident—this scene specifically: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnLj5Xo4zBc&t=19s It became one of the most iconic scene of French comedy movies. To prepare the scene, the special effects engineer sawed off the car in 250 pieces, reattached every piece with hooks, and secured the hooks with "explosive bolts". At the right moment, the actor driving the car pushed a button to trigger the (tiny) explosives which made the car fall apart. Here is a French article about it: https://2cv-legende.com/expo-de-la-2cv-du-film-le-corniaud-a...
PS: the French wikipedia article on the movie has a picture of the explosive bolts they used: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corniaud#L'accident_de_la_2...