ESET recommends Linux if your unsupported Windows 11 PC can't update from 10
90 comments
·January 5, 2025verzali
this_weekend
LMDE
trod1234
Outcomes on Linux depend greatly upon the hardware it is running on.
pmlnr
Not really. Few years old hardware rarely had issues for the past decade.
louthy
Yes really. You’re just giving anecdotal evidence, which is fine, but the GP is still correct.
Here’s some counter anecdotal evidence: my high end sound card doesn’t work with Linux Mint. Half my motherboard’s USB ports are not recognised by Linux Mint. And my brand new Apple Studio Display only partially works with Linux Mint.
All works 100% on Windows.
I’d still recommend moving away from Windows, but you must be honest that Linux OS’s still have more problems with hardware (in general). And for novice users/tech-unsavvy peeps, the amount of terminal time is still far too high.
Personally, I was only holding on to Windows for music production. But the other day I logged into Windows 11 after not having used it for a while and - whatever update had installed - it started causing audio dropouts on my 64 core machine, 128gb ram, with nvme drives and pro sound card!
That was the last straw for me. I ordered the new M4 Mac Mini Pro, which I’ll use just for music production. And continue with Linux Mint on my PC for everything else.
I’ve used Windows in one form or another since 3.1, but the amount of crap they keep loading on my machine without my permission and the generally hostile approach to users: “Let’s keep setting up your machine. Yes | Maybe Later”, let’s not. Let’s never use Windows again.
nubinetwork
I love what Valve has done to make gaming a better experience, but I can't see everyone just dropping everything to install Linux on their computers.
They bought a Windows laptop, for Windows things... People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different.
lukan
"They bought a Windows laptop, for Windows things.."
Most people bought a laptop - for computer things. Most people don't care for the OS at all. They care if they can do the stuff they want to do.
For most it is just browsing and that works mostly the same.
But if it is more than browsing, then chances are, they won't be happy with libreoffice or gimp, if they are used to microsoft office and photoshop.
Also, the main problem with linux on laptops are still drivers. Standby issues, broken keyboard backlighting, mousepad not working after resume, ...
Still, anyone who can make the transition, should make the transition.
nubinetwork
The point I was trying to make is that they're not going to. That would take effort and learning something new. They just want a working computer, yesterday, and they're not going to waste time with "that Linux thing".
d3Xt3r
The point OP was trying to make is that for most people, they don't need to learn anything new - If all they're going to be doing is fire up Chrome and go to Facebook or whatever, then the OS doesn't really matter to them.
The minor UI/UX differences between Windows and say, a distro running KDE or XFCE isn't any greater than the difference between two major Windows versions. I mean, look at Windows 11, a lot of normies were unhappy about the center oriented taskbar. And look at the mess that Windows 8 was - no start button initially, and a fullscreen start menu.
The proof in the pudding is the relative success of Chromebooks - normies buy it knowing that all they need is a browser, and they didn't need to take any big effort to learn anything new.
gerdesj
My wife rocks Arch. She calls it Facebook and email and internet.
On a more serious note, my work intranet wiki page for turning a stock Ubuntu (Kubuntu but I also allow any Ubuntu variant) box into a corporate one is getting quite short these days.
It's a lot shorter than the Windows equivalent one. They are hamstrung by the lack of a central software source.
registeredcorn
For some, I think it's a bit more fundamental than that.
I'll give an example of a conversation with a family member, who bought a used computer a few months ago and claimed it was "broken" (they didn't know where the power button was, and thought the charging cable was wrong (it was USB-C))
Me: "Oh, well since it's used, we should probably do a clean install. I can reinstall Windows for you if you want...but if you're interested, or I could do Linux instead. It works as well as Windows, but if your computer ever breaks, I'm not sure a technician could fix it as easily. It's got different benefits though, and would use this older hardware better."
Them: "Oh? But how could you even do that?"
Me: "Linux installs are pretty easy. As easy as Windows install."
Them: "But isn't this a Windows laptop?" (It was a ThinkPad.
Me: "No...it's just a laptop. Your laptop. You're not required to use Windows. You can use whatever you want. You own it."
Them: "But how could it have Linux if it already had Windows? I thought this was a 'Windows' laptop? Doesn't this only work with Windows?"
Me: "It can have Windows. It could also have Linux, instead. It's just what's installed right now to make the computer work. It's yours to do with as you wish."
I could kind of see a look of surprise on their face. It hadn't even occurred to them that they were permitted to install anything but Windows, because they saw it as a "Windows" laptop.
Ultimately I ended up reinstalling Windows because they were afraid of dealing with the unknown, as you mentioned.
marcodiego
> Also, the main problem with linux on laptops are still drivers. Standby issues, broken keyboard backlighting, mousepad not working after resume, ...
This simply doesn't happen when you buy from an established vendor that sells computers with Linux out of the box. My suggestion these days is: even if you're going to use windows, buy a computer that comes with Linux; drivers (even windows drivers) are usually better. Use windows on a VM and only install it baremetal if performance is an issue.
lukan
Indeed, but we were talking about installing linux on a already existing laptop so people don't have to buy a new laptop.
Also the avaiable models are very, very limited. (which is why I use a chrome laptop when mobile)
II2II
> People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different.
Some people simply don't have that option. Other people may have that option, but would end up with something worse simply because their budget only allows for a hobbled machine. In the past they may have been able to resort to the second-hand market or cast off machines in order to get something much better.
Granted, most of these people are also willing to run an unsupported operating system. Perhaps a handful would be willing to jump zealously into Linux.
qwerpy
I occasionally use my steam deck as a desktop replacement but I'm always relieved to go back to my windows 10 desktop, for two reasons:
1) No native Onenote app. Nothing else checks all the boxes I need for a note taking app - easy enough for a non techie to use, shared notebooks, mobile apps, easy formatting (i.e. no markdown, etc)
2) A bunch of things are slightly "off". Can't customize mouse scroll wheel behavior, things like sleep/wifi occasionally don't work, other things I've forgotton.
I'm resigned to de-shittifying windows 11 when I eventually replace my new desktop.
hagbard_c
If the old laptop runs the 'windows things' just fine under Linux and word goes around about that old pile of chips suddenly being much faster and less intrusive 'people' might just go around and install Linux or have other people do that for them. It is not Windows people want, it is the software running on the things they want.
tcmart14
Yes and no. I think at the base, everyone just wants their software to run. The challenge is, people don't want to have to learn anything new to do that. What are most people comfortable with? Windows. Why? It was on their school computers, probably on their parents' computers and most likely on their work computers.
I think if schools had their computer labs (if that's still a thing), running Ubuntu 24.04 and taught computer basics on Libreoffice, that is what people would want on their home computers, if they could go to Best Buy and buy a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed.
Maybe over the next 5-10 years we see this change as some schools issue Chromebooks?
hagbard_c
The people who are 'used to Windows' will often be none the wiser if they're confronted with a Linux installation which is configured to look like Windows. Windows has many faces going back all the way to Windows 3.1 and many of those faces can show up when clicking around on a 'current' Windows version. This rather inconsistent look and feel means it is fairly easy to create something which more or less looks and acts like Windows in the eyes of those 'used to Windows' since they're used to things sometimes looking out of place.
I think Windows is close to the end of being ubiquitous. The more Microsoft forces online features onto its users, the more those users will see Windows as that thing which launches the browser and with that the easier it will be to get people used to alternatives, especially if those alternatives offer many advantages over whatever Microsoft is peddling under the Windows moniker.
excalibur
> They bought a Windows laptop, for Windows things... People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different.
If they want to go that route and they can afford it, so what? I think the recommendation was for those who want a way to keep their current device functional.
saomcomrad56
I've installed debian along with browsers and base programs for a couple non-techy relatives and they said they like it better than windows 10/11.
YPPH
Which desktop environment did you select? I run Debian 12 bookworm with the Gnome desktop environment. But I suspect KDE or MATE may be more appealing to Windows converts.
saomcomrad56
I showed them different options. One liked xfce, the other liked MATE. These were for old computers by the way.
whalesalad
KDE is leaps and bounds better than gnome. It can be customized to be minimal. Gnome is just minimal and painful for the sake of trying to mimic macOS but in a terrible manner.
zruc
I'm with several opinions around. I keep a windows box with office just because of the intrincated format of a long frequently updated bunch of related docs (about 15 years now, time flies...). Used windows 8 until the hdd "expired" recently, now 10 in an inexpensive little cube. For all the rest, mint and cinamom are a perfect fit. Simple as that. I had enough of complex machinery in my (professionally active) time...
tedunangst
What's the actual attack surface for an outdated home PC? My understanding is the threat to win PCs is 50% you clicked the wrong link (outdated browser problem, not OS) and 50% lateral move (probably not meaningful in a home environment?). Like if I plugged my Windows 7 laptop, last updated 2018 into my network, what would happen?
What I'm getting at is "instead of throwing out your old PC you can install Linux" is just a long winded way of saying "throw out your old PC" for many people. I think "here's how to keep running an old PC safely" would be more useful advice.
skobes
Browsers eventually stop supporting old OS'es, so the "outdated browser problem" is not exactly decoupled from the OS situation.
Chrome for example is unsupported on Windows 7 past version 109 (Jan 2023).
balderm
My laptop has been running Pop OS for the past 5 years and its been a delight to use for dev stuff and random gaming, really wish i could move my desktop to Linux too but i mostly use that for gaming and don’t really want to reboot my PC and switch OS when i need to play a game with anticheat.
Hilift
> However, the costs are high and double with each year of use.
Brandon, how high are they? For consumers: $30 per year. For education: $1 per year. Then $2 per year. The third year is $4.
whalesalad
We are 100% truly in the time of "desktop linux". It has never been better. Unless you have a video game that 100% must run on Windows, or a specific application, there is really no reason to be there. If you want a desktop environment that looks and feels like Windows, I would suggest KDE. Out of the box it is pretty close, but it is one of the most customizable DE's out there and can truly be made to look and feel just like Windows.
_ink_
I wish that was true. But the corporate world runs on MS Office. The alternatives to that just cannot keep up :(
downrightmike
Office is a webapp at this point, businesses use msft for AD
nineteen999
I've never seen anybody using the Web version of Office 365, outside the Outlook web client. All the companies I've worked at in the last 10 years are still using the installable versions of Word/Excel/PowerPoint etc. The web versions are not even comparable.
smackeyacky
Not for everything. Microsoft still don't have a working set of Rules for the web version of Outlook, so if you have anybody who uses rules to organise their inbox into different folders they are stuck with the desktop version of Outlook.
whalesalad
I get by great in the corp world with Libreoffice. It even handles some really antique VBA-based spreadsheets.
justahuman74
perhaps at some point Proton will fill that use-case
beanjuiceII
what does this matter anymore with office 365?
ToniCipriani
The web version of Office apps still is not the same as the full-featured fat desktop version, which only runs on Windows and Mac OS.
You can't use the web version offline, they are not a PWA, for instance.
kayodelycaon
The web version of Word is a bad joke. I couldn’t even use it for editing a story the last time I tried it because it either didn’t have change tracking or it didn’t work correctly. At least the iOS app is useable.
Don’t get me started on Excel.
okanat
No COM integration, no VBA and no Active Directory support.
Business and engineering software uses Windows APIs to integrate with MS Office and Active Directory. The APIs are not portable and hard to replicate on emulation layers. The software is old so expect a huge pile of examples of Hyrum's law. So you need bug-for-bug API layer implementation to run those software elsewhere.
Migrating companies off from that software is actually harder than creating a clone of Windows.
dlachausse
The browser version is lacking several features compared to the Windows and Mac versions.
robertlagrant
Office 365's web version is pretty dreadful.
zxvkhkxvdvbdxz
WRT gaming its mostly just some anti cheat that is standing in the way, like Ars [1] so gently put it:
> As detailed in the r/macgaming subreddit and at r/SteamDeck, many players who successfully got Marvel Rivals working would receive a "Penalty Issued" notice, with a violation "detected" and bans issued until 2124. Should such a ban stand, players risked entirely missing the much-prophesied Year of the Linux Desktop or Mainstream Mac Gaming, almost certain to happen at some point in that span.
For non-gaming, things are not moving fast enough. Microsoft Office and Adobe CS is still complicated to get running, if possible at all with recent versions.
1: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/01/marvel-rivals-lifts-1...
trinsic2
For me, when I switched to Linux, I had to start thinking out of the box. Microsoft's OS and Adobe's Cloud are hostile environments that are designed to lock you into a ecosystem that isn't in your best interest. As people start figuring this out, and have had enough, like I finally did one day, more and more people are going to look to alternatives.
I dropped Adobe and Windows[0] because of this. I can do this because I am tech savvy, but as more technically inclined people do this, it creates incentives to make it easier for the rest.
[0]: https://www.scottrlarson.com/publications/publication-transi...
trinsic2
Also I had to finally come to the conclusion that if I wanted control over my own house, I'm going to have to make sacrifices. Like Games with anti-cheat that don't work on Linux right now. More and more games with anti-cheat are starting to see the benefits of Linux. So I started letting go of products that don't let me use them the way I want to. It took some discipline, but my life is more stress free now. Now some of the games that require anti-cheat that were not playable on Linux 2 years ago have migrated their anti-cheat to steam's implementation.
okanat
Unless we get a stable ecosystem for closed source apps and drivers it is not going to happen. Android is the very example of that. A closed source software friendly OS with the backing of a tech giant. It also has to provide an almost complete translation layer. Wine is fine for simpler programs using contained APIs like games. It is far behind for any business app.
The polishing required for the masses requires people with huge talent and years of experience to work on the software. That talent doesn't want to work for scraps. So unless a tech giant decides to hedge tens of billions against Apple and Microsoft and give it away for free like Google did with Android, we are not going to get an OS that has good OOTB experience and a thriving business grade software.
ClassyJacket
I don't think so. Linux still hasn't figured out how to install programs smoothly. In fact, installing a Windows program on Linux is easier than installing a Linux native program. Anything released in AppImage format requires you to write your own config file to get a shortcut and icon? Seriously? Until they figure that out the average person is going to quickly give up on it.
starky
While this is an issue for some smaller programs, for the vast majority of stuff installing and updating programs is just so much easier on Linux than Windows. I don't have to go searching for a download link, I just open up my distro's package manager and search for what I want. One of the major things that has helped Linux is that a lot more things are just web apps now.
What I really think is the unacceptable thing that will hold people from using Linux permanently is the abysmal power management for laptops. I cannot get my Framework 13 to reliably last more than 24 hours with the lid closed when Windows easily lasts multiple days.
chuckadams
Who's still distributing with AppImage? Most desktop distros these days are based on flatpak or snap, which are as one-click-easy as any other app store, and certainly don't require writing any config files. When you do need to configure the packaging, e.g. to access different directories, there's a standard GUI for that purpose (buried deep in settings, but most people won't be using it).
whalesalad
I just have a folder in my home dir called "applications" and I put manual app images there. Double click them to launch.
As for other stuff, the flatpak store is quite good and integrates well with KDE.
On my deb 12 machine running kde, I can do system updates and app installs from a single area. (KDE Discover app)
okasaki
Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC is supported until 2032 and is trivial to obtain and activate.
leeoniya
> trivial to obtain and activate
i have never seen "trivial to obtain" and "LTSC" in the same sentance before.
please, do elaborate
simondanerd
It took a couple seconds on DuckDuckGo: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/download-windows-...
leeoniya
okay, i should have been more specific. how would one activate an LTSC installation? last time i looked into it, you could not actually purchase a single LTSC license as an individual user.
okanat
Those are trial versions. You cannot fully activate them without doing the equivalent of a full OS install. You need to find a corporate partner and buy a whole bunch of regular Win 10/11 Pro licenses and you're eligible to get LTSC which costs a fair bit of money.
jeroenhd
Can you give me the link I should forward to my parents? They're still on Windows 10 home and I don't think they're even aware that they'll need to either pay up or figure something else out this year.
haunter
Might as well use Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2024 at that point, supported until 2034. Been using as a daily driver since it came out last year, pretty much the same good experience as with the Windows 10 LTSC.
jasomill
I don't expect third-party desktop application developers to continue supporting Windows 10 until 2034, given that the IoT Enterprise license agreement prohibits desktop use.
Which is not to say most applications won't continue to run, but it wouldn't surprise me if, say, Valve stopped supporting Steam on Windows 10 in five years or so, as they did with Windows <10 last year.
xnx
ChromeOS Flex is a great option for older hardware. Easy to install. Secure. Easy. Regular updates.
crotho
[dead]
throwuxiytayq
Posting YT links here feels a bit lame, but this amazingly-produced animation by James Lee actually got my hopes up that people are finally starting to break up with proprietary programs and operating systems: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lm51xZHZI6g
Linux Mint is very usable these days. I switched a few months ago because I couldn't stand how bloated Windows 11 was. I haven't regretted it: it's actually refreshing how Mint just does want an OS should do and doesn't try to shove extra features down my throat.